General 2005 2.8 JTD injector replacement shock

[bennals]

Hi.

This is my first post...actually just found the forum after trying to figure out if the bill I just got for replacement of all four injectors was reasonable.

I live in Brisbane, Australia and the Ducato owned by the organisation I work for started running rough yesterday with the injector warning light on. I took it to our service mechanic who advised I take it to a diesel specialist, which I did. I just got a phone call advising that all four injectors have been replaced at a cost of $2500 AUD! We're a small not-for-profit organisation so it's gonna hurt a bit.

Does anyone in the know think that that's reasonable? Also, what are the chances that all four injectors failed, or do they need to be replaced altogether or something?

And while I'm at it, does anyone know if faulty service valves on the air conditioning unit is a common problem? The gas has leaked out on five occasions now. The first three times were while under warranty, and despite ATECO claiming that they aren't a warrantable item, the dealer replaced and refilled for free. Now it's out of warranty and no amount of angry letters to ATECO is budging them on the issue. Summer is closing in and it tends to get a bit hot in BrisVegas, so I'm wondering if I should just cop the refilling bills (seems wasteful) or try something else.

Any help/opinions on either issue would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

Bill.

 

[corkman]

Unfortunately those kind of prices are fairly normal for common rail diesel

Injectors here are about €400 plus the main dealer will be following a procedure which says to replace the injector pipes which are about €120. Then you have labour charges. (Incidentally citroen were charging €600 per injector and €450 for the pipes!)

The pressure in common rail systems is such that any water in the fuel erodes the metal parts your injectors can be toast in seconds. Same goes for the cam in the pump. Water in diesel is a fact of life. This is aggravated by the fact that fiat (sofim) went with a bosch tank lift pump which means that the filter is on the pressure side which dramatically reduces its ability to remove water.

I know that diesel quality in australia is a serious problem, if you are going to continue with the van I'd look at what other australians have done for their diesels and fit a racor filter or two. My father suggested a twin tank system where fresh diesel would be sucked through a racor filter into the main tank definitely a good idea.

When my injectors went I was VERY tempted to fit an old 2.8 idtd or 2.5 td engine as it would have actually cost less.

 

[bennals]

Hi Corkman.

Thanks for the reply. Makes me feel a lot better. I'm going to pick it up this morning and I was dreading having to argue about the bill if feedback was that the bill was over the top. Is it also likely that all four injectors needed to be changed at once?

Cheers.

Bill.

 

[FreeSpirit]

Hi
There is a known fault in the 2.8JTD models where the electrical wiring to the number 4 injector is too short causing a bad connection resulting in misfiring & the injector warning light coming on. In most cases simply removing the connection & replacing it will fix the misfire which would have happened during "their" injector replacement. I wouldn't be surprised at the cost of the injectors - out here it is cheaper to buy Iveco engine parts rather than Fiat as it is the same engine.
See previous posts on the problem.
https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/242518-warning-light-comes-around-3000rpm.html
Also from the way your post is worded I assume that they decided to replace the 4 injectors first & then phoned you to tell you what the the bill is. I would think that any work necessary should not have been carried out unless it was authorised by the owner first especially for that amount!
I would be surprised that all 4 injectors would need replacing unless water or some other contaminate like corkman has stated had entered the fuel system which I would then think that the pump also would be damaged if all 4 injectors needed replacement because of the contaminates. The "yellow water present" warning light should have come on if water was present in the fuel if that is the case.
Hope this helps

 

[corkman]

Insist on getting the old injectors back and have them tested by your nearest bosch center. When the injectors are bad you'll usually have starting problems. Like free spirit says I assume they called you to authorise the work?

 

[bennals]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, I spoke at length to the mechanic yesterday. He suggested that two of the injectors had failed and that their standard practice was to replace all of them under those circumstances, the rationale being that all four injectors had been subjected to the same conditions (water in fuel and high engine bay temperatures) and that it was likely that the other two would have similar problems soon. Mixing new injectors with older worn ones apparently accelerates the process as well. Rather than have the vehicle off the road again and have to pay labour costs again in a month or two, they just do the lot. No mention of pump replacement, though I'll have to check the invoice to see if that was done.

I wasn't phoned prior to the work being done, though admittedly I did say to the mechanic I first spoke to that it's a work vehicle and it needs to be back on the road asap and whatever needs to happen is fine, so that one's on me I guess. If it was my business though, I'd call regardless of what a customer told me when the bill approached that amount.

I suspect it's too late to get the injectors from them now, though I've learned my lessons for next time.

Either of you had any problems with the AC service valves?

Cheers.

Bill.

 

[corkman]

Sorry, never even seen one with AC not much call for it with our weather and the vehicle taxes in Ireland make 'luxuries' like AC very expensive. If two were gone he did the right thing, they would have changed the filter too i assume. Surprising the pump is ok. Danger with not changing the pump is if any damage the metal particles get pushed up into the rail and then into injectors.

Repair standard for honda where water damage is suspected is injectors, rail, all pipes, pump, filter and filter housing, tank and lift pump. Gets pretty expensive pretty quick.

 

[bennals]

Thanks Corkman. I'll follow up with the mechanic on what else was/should be changed.

Bill.

 

[T14086]

get an opinion from a fiat tech, also its not standard practice to change all injectors.