Technical 2002 ducato 2.8jtd problems... in Greece!

[hymerfiat]

Hello from Greece!

Made it all the way here from Derbyshire in our Ducato-based camper - 2002 2.8 jtd. But have been having some issues for a couple of weeks, starting in southern Italy, now getting worse:

About two or three weeks ago, we had a few short episodes of loss of power (or possibly limp mode?? not sure how to tell the difference?). Essentially little/no response from accelerator, and lurching somewhat when changing gear. You can slowly get up to a reasonable speed (e.g. 50 mph). No pattern to it, and varying from a slight blip to a few minutes long, interspersed with longish periods of no trouble. You seem to be able to accelerate out of it to some extent... in other words, if you give the van a bit of welly in a low gear, it seems to splutter for a second and then the problem stops.

We found a garage who hooked us up to the Fiat diagnostic plug (we're pre-OBD), and we got the following errors: P0220, P1555 and P0235.

However, the problem didn't occur at the garage and in fact seemed to just go away - and so we carried on another 1000km, well into Greece (now in Corinth/Athens area). But a few days ago, back to the same intermittent loss of power. Went to a local place who straight off changed the fuel filter and put an additive in the tank. This did seem to make a difference, but then later that day we had the same occasional blip of loss of power. Then the next morning, loss of power non-stop for about 20 mins. Went back to garage, who changed the brake pedal sensor (presumably related to fault code P1555, and you could easily see that the press-in valve thingy on the sensor was faulty). They also cleaned and reseated the fuel injector connections, cleaned the ECU connections, etc.

Annoyingly the problem never happened at the garage, despite many hours there!

Anyway, later the same day, short and intermittent loss of power/limp mode again! Argh.

Any ideas on what we can try? I've read elsewhere on this forum about throttle sensor issues (which I guess could be related to P0220?). And what about P0235?

Another consistent grumble from the mechanics we've heard both in southern Italy and Greece is about bad fuel / cheap diesel.

Any ideas what we can try next? And are we damaging the van by continuing to travel?

Thanks in advance!

 

[hymerfiat]

Sorry, forgot to mention that fuel injection warning light comes on when problem is happening...

 

[hymerfiat]

This is a thread from the forum that I thought might be relevant:

Ducato 2.8JTD 2001 | FIAT Ducato

Warning light usually comes on when going up hill and engine is under load light goes off when foot taken off accelerator coming on again as soon as foot back on. When light on loss of power occurs. Remedies tried include: New accelerator pedal fitted. ECU removed tested and refitted with no...

www.fiatforum.com

Might indicate a possible problem with throttle sensor and/or wiring between it and ECU... could this be causing the loss of power / limp mode I wonder??

 

[Davren]

P0235 relates to the turbo charger boost sensor. It could be faulty, or blocked, or the wiring to and/or from it could be faulty.

There's a video here:
.

 

[RobL]

Common problem.Its usually the wiring between the TPS(throttle position sensor) and the ECU. In my case it was a ground wire (there are two) to the ECU. No continuity. Get the garage to check the wiring with multimeter. You should have 2 grounds,2 5 volt reference and two signal wires from TPS to ECU. In my case I fitted a jumper wire. The wiring and plugs on Ducato are crap. Apparently there is a plug behind the dash (I never found it) that gives continuity problems. Most cut the thing off and solder the wires.
Occasionally when starting the vehicle I have dead stick (no throttle) and very occasionally while driving. Red injector light comes(no light at low throttle) on when I give full throttle and won't go over 2500 rpm. I turn off the engine, turn the ignition on, engine OFF .Give full throttle, injector light comes on then extinguishes after about 15 seconds. Engine is back to normal. I think it's that plug I mentioned will have to find it and get rid of it. Hope this helps.

 

[RobL]

PS. You should find lots of posts about this subject.

 

[hymerfiat]

I'm increasingly certain that we have a problem with the accelerator or more likely the connection D004A between the pedal and the ECU - the problem sounds exactly like that described in the eighth comment in the link I posted above. It's some sort of mismatch in sensor output or else a damaged wire or poor connector that is causing intermittent limp mode, I'm pretty sure.

However, our Ducato is a LHD vehicle that's been converted into a camper, and the plans I have found online of where D004A is aren't right... presumably things have been moved around a bit for the camper conversion. I'm pretty sure the connector is in the engine bay (and not under the passenger side dash, as in RHD vehicles), but I just can't find a connector with six wires going into it that are the same colours as those coming out of the pedal sensor. Does anyone know what D004A looks like??

 

[hymerfiat]

Common problem.Its usually the wiring between the TPS(throttle position sensor) and the ECU. In my case it was a ground wire (there are two) to the ECU. No continuity. Get the garage to check the wiring with multimeter. You should have 2 grounds,2 5 volt reference and two signal wires from TPS to ECU. In my case I fitted a jumper wire. The wiring and plugs on Ducato are crap. Apparently there is a plug behind the dash (I never found it) that gives continuity problems. Most cut the thing off and solder the wires.
Occasionally when starting the vehicle I have dead stick (no throttle) and very occasionally while driving. Red injector light comes(no light at low throttle) on when I give full throttle and won't go over 2500 rpm. I turn off the engine, turn the ignition on, engine OFF .Give full throttle, injector light comes on then extinguishes after about 15 seconds. Engine is back to normal. I think it's that plug I mentioned will have to find it and get rid of it. Hope this helps.

Thanks! I posted again before I noticed your reply. I do have a multimeter with me, so I could feasibly check resistance in individual wires, but I just can't find this D004A connector in the engine bay - presumably that's the one you're talking about?

 

[RobL]

Thanks! I posted again before I noticed your reply. I do have a multimeter with me, so I could feasibly check resistance in individual wires, but I just can't find this D004A connector in the engine bay - presumably that's the one you're talking about?

Yes the elusive D004A connector. Some say it's in the engine bay,some say behind the dash. I tend to think there is some confusion between left and right hand drive vehicles and varients. My MH is left hand drive the same as yours and the same age with the ECU on the left. It would make sense that the connector is on that side of the vehicle. I did notice recently when I took the steering column covers off on an unrelated job that the dash to the left of the instrument panel comes off. I was meaning to remove it again to have a proper look but haven't got round to it. I do remember there were a few connectors in there.
I found it easier to remove the accelerator pedal and back probe the TPS plug especially when checking the voltage changes on the signal wires. It's very unlikely it will be the TPS. If it is I have a spare one and your welcome to it when you get home (like you i was told it was the problem)
Hope you fix it. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Communicator]

I cannot see that the vehicle under discussion has been identified as either an x230, or an x244.

In the current context, this is important as there are considerable wiring differences between the two versions.

If the OP can confirm that his vehicle is an early x244 (check first three numbers of VIN e.g. ZFA244.......), then I can supply relevant wiring details, including location of D004A, which may help.

 

[hymerfiat]

Common problem.Its usually the wiring between the TPS(throttle position sensor) and the ECU. In my case it was a ground wire (there are two) to the ECU. No continuity. Get the garage to check the wiring with multimeter. You should have 2 grounds,2 5 volt reference and two signal wires from TPS to ECU. In my case I fitted a jumper wire. The wiring and plugs on Ducato are crap. Apparently there is a plug behind the dash (I never found it) that gives continuity problems. Most cut the thing off and solder the wires.
Occasionally when starting the vehicle I have dead stick (no throttle) and very occasionally while driving. Red injector light comes(no light at low throttle) on when I give full throttle and won't go over 2500 rpm. I turn off the engine, turn the ignition on, engine OFF .Give full throttle, injector light comes on then extinguishes after about 15 seconds. Engine is back to normal. I think it's that plug I mentioned will have to find it and get rid of it. Hope this helps.

This morning I tried your tip of ignition on, engine off, full throttle - and we did 185km without any trouble, just a few blips right at the end of the journey. Then another 100km or so with very little trouble. This is in stark contrast to the last week or so, when we've had regular limp mode on every trip. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but it does seem to work! Thanks

 

[hymerfiat]

I cannot see that the vehicle under discussion has been identified as either an x230, or an x244.

In the current context, this is important as there are considerable wiring differences between the two versions.

If the OP can confirm that his vehicle is an early x244 (check first three numbers of VIN e.g. ZFA244.......), then I can supply relevant wiring details, including location of D004A, which may help.

I've just checked the V5, and it's an x230 - many thanks

 

[RobL]

This morning I tried your tip of ignition on, engine off, full throttle - and we did 185km without any trouble, just a few blips right at the end of the journey. Then another 100km or so with very little trouble. This is in stark contrast to the last week or so, when we've had regular limp mode on every trip. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but it does seem to work! Thanks

I don't know why it works, seems to reset the ECU in some way. Glad it has made your time away less stressful.A few days ago I dropped the MH at the garage to get the MOT done. I had a phone call that there wasn't any throttle. They had started the engine before the injector light had gone out so it went into limp mode. I explained this method and it worked.
I'm sure it's the connector that's the problem and will too get rid of it.

 

[Communicator]

Unfortunately, I do not hold and cannot trace engine related wiring diagrams for the 2.8jtd engined x230. Though I have seen the odd post that suggests that they may be available.
On my x244, I believe that connector D004A is located beneath the panel in the engine bay fuse box, but have not confirmed this. As the 2.8jtd was dropped into the x230 chassis, there were probably several fixes to cope with the additional engine connections. I think that behind the dash, may still be a possible location for D004A on the x230.