Technical 2.0 timing belt engine in car - tensioner question

[Jamied]

Hi,
am going to be changing the timing belt in car at some point in the next few weeks - was intending to do the tensioner(s?), water pump, the aux belts, oil, filter, sparks and the rest at the same time.

I'm happy enough doing the timing belt in car, but is there an issue with the tensioner coming off with that setup? I've read a few posts of people saying it wont come out for lack of room...

also, would anyone know of a reasonably priced supplier of fiat parts - i normally use eurocar parts in bristol but they're not so good on fiats parts...

 

[bulldog5046]

Hello,

Yes you need to push the engine over to be able to get the tensioners and waterpump out. i dont know the full details of doing this but some people here do, i beleive you need to rest it on a trolly jack and remove the suspension on one side.

as for parts, i bought my water pump from www.shop4parts.co.uk and my cambelt kit from Partco in Avonmouth.

water pump was about £40 and the cambelt kit was about £90 inc VAT.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

[Jamied]

thanks for the response - thats usefull to know as i live in north bristol...

yeah, I saw that you can take off the engine mounting and support from underneath - same way you have to do the old renault clio cambelt (very cool guide with all the pics though!) - but i couldn't work out if the tensioners could still be replaced... looks like there was a space problem...

the more I think about it, the more I'm tempted to just change the timing belt and wait until ive put a few more miles on the car (its on 62k just now and im not a red line driver... with an MOT due in a few months). Is there a good way to check the tensioner to see if its on the way out?

 

[mountainmachine]

What age is it?

 

[bulldog5046]

the belt alone is pretty simple, could do it in a few hours its just fiddly.

i'd advise against this as you'll be paying the price if it goes, but you are right in the guide it doesnt tell you how to get the tensioners off and no they wont without more work (you need to shove the engine over)

i'm in Patchway, mind if i ask where you are? and what Marea are you driving?

 

[Jamied]

Well, I dont mind work but haven't got the equiptment to get the engine out (not in one peice anyhow, and splitting it means new head gasket and whatever else I find that needs replacing on the way...). I might see if next weekends going to be a dry one and give it a go then...

is it just a case of taking off the o/s lower engine mount and levering the engine to get the tensioner off?

Its a 1999T reg. Only picked it up on weds - was gonna get another saab 9000 but fancied a change (£500 was the right price for me for a 1999 car)... loving it so far - took it out along some country lanes for a drive today, and it was fun if not a little twitchy...

I live in alveston - probably about 5 miles north of you on the a38. I work in Aztec West most days, so if you see a blue 4 door with an iffy rear n/s light and a hyperactive o/s indicator, that'll be me!

 

[bulldog5046]

getting onto this subject i'd like to point you towards this thread:

https://www.fiatforum.com/marea/93154-cambelt-tensioners.html

i will keep an eye out for you but i get on the motorway at cribbs so unlikely to see you, we did have a warehouse in aztec west but we just sold it.

if you see my sexy black beast roaring about give me a wave

 

[jug]

(its on 62k just now and im not a red line driver... with an MOT due in a few months). Is there a good way to check the tensioner to see if its on the way out?

at 62k it doesnt need changing, most people take the paranoid approach to timing belts, and so they should, but the tensioner and water pump dont really need changing until much higher milage.

to check the condition of the tensioner check for play or roughness in the bearing. it should have no or very little play, and rotating the tensioneer should be smooth and easy.

find me a single person that has suffered tensioner collapse or seizing at less than 120k and you've found a lier.

 

[mountainmachine]

at 62k it doesnt need changing, most people take the paranoid approach to timing belts, and so they should, but the tensioner and water pump dont really need changing until much higher milage.

to check the condition of the tensioner check for play or roughness in the bearing. it should have no or very little play, and rotating the tensioneer should be smooth and easy.

find me a single person that has suffered tensioner collapse or seizing at less than 120k and you've found a lier.

I think with the cost of the 20v change a new water pump and tensioner only adds say 15% to the overall cost where as for other models your talking at least 30% and the waterpump doesnt need changed on them anyway at the same time as it still accessable.

 

[mick wilson]

Hi fella's,

Have just finished changing the belt, tensioner, water pump, PAS and alternator belt on my 20v.

It wasn't easy but you can do all of the above. The main problem is obviously the space required to remove the tensioner. I did this by completely removing the rubber doughnut of the O/S suspension ( I found that by loosening all of the engine mounts, removing the battery tray and the long air intake gave quite a decent amount of room ) then put a bar between the front chassis leg and rest it on the remainder of the engine mount.

If you then stand on this bar and use another one to prise the engine away from the chassis leg at the engine steady bar by the strut top, you can remove the tensioner, although this did take a bit of time it is possible just keep trying. It is easier if you have someone there to help.

Regarding the tensioner change itself I spoke to a local specialist who said that when tightening the bolt of the tensioner you should push the sort of silver peg/pointer to line up with the hole on the plate of the tensioner ( when in situ ) then tighten up the nut. This is also shown on the Marea CD Workshop Manual I have. This again takes two as one has to push up the pointer while the other one tightens it. The water pump is quite easy to do.

Have fun !!

 

[Jamied]

at 62k it doesnt need changing, most people take the paranoid approach to timing belts, and so they should, but the tensioner and water pump dont really need changing until much higher milage.

fiat suggest 72k dont they? well, I'm gonna change it now as i like to get to know my cars when i can. Am doing the rest on the way as its not that much extra expense for me, and it means I can probably drive the car until it rusts away before it'll need doing again...

Good tip on the tensioner line up - my autodata thingymy doesn't show that... how long did this all take you mick?

 

[mick wilson]

The tip on the tensioner came from a specialist so I took his word for it and it did give that little bit more tension.

All in all it took me and my bruv about 3 days !!. That looks bad but we only worked on it for about 3 odd hours each day as we did it outside..bloody cold it was too !.

I dont get to the computer very often as it is my bruv's so if you need to contact me here's my number 07877 337544.

It's not easy but very satisfying once done

Good Luck.

 

[Hellcat]

at 62k it doesnt need changing, most people take the paranoid approach to timing belts, and so they should, but the tensioner and water pump dont really need changing until much higher milage.

to check the condition of the tensioner check for play or roughness in the bearing. it should have no or very little play, and rotating the tensioneer should be smooth and easy.

find me a single person that has suffered tensioner collapse or seizing at less than 120k and you've found a lier.

My 1.9JTD aux tensioner collapsed at under 120k.

 

[marts600]

Hi,
am going to be changing the timing belt in car at some point in the next few weeks - was intending to do the tensioner(s?), water pump, the aux belts, oil, filter, sparks and the rest at the same time.

I'm happy enough doing the timing belt in car, but is there an issue with the tensioner coming off with that setup? I've read a few posts of people saying it wont come out for lack of room...

also, would anyone know of a reasonably priced supplier of fiat parts - i normally use eurocar parts in bristol but they're not so good on fiats parts...

Try the following link. Found them very helpful

http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/index.cfm/method/info.home/

 

[Jamied]

Well, I'm half way through this job today. have both o/s engine mounts off (upeer & lower). Have the belt cover off - havent got the lower gearbox mount off, as it appears to be seized...

I'm considering making a hole in the frame of the wing surrounding the tensioner with an angle grinder (and placing something to protect everything whilst im doing this... I just cant seem to get enough room...

anyone got any good ideas on how to get the gearbox mount loose??? I'm trying at the one bolt underneath the mount that goes into the rubber part.

What did mick mean by

I did this by completely removing the rubber doughnut of the O/S suspension

? is this the rubber donut of the lower engine mount?

any advice welcome - would be good to have it all done tommorow...

 

[fasteddie400]

Hi,
I've done this recently too.

You need to support the engine on a jack as you'll have to take both upper and lower mounts off on the cambelt side to get the most movement. It's not easy to get the lower mount out completely, but can be done with a lot of swearing!

I've had to take the head off among other things, and have now put it back to discover that the only bits i had done 'professionally' have been messed up.
Namely, a ticking from the new valves and a helicoiled plug hole at such an angle that it won't seal.

Anyone know what tappet adjustments there are on a 20v engine?

 

[Jamied]

thanks Freddie - I'm getting there... belt is now off, butstill not enough room to move the tensioner off.
Did you not remove the lower mount on the gearbox side? or did you just remove all of the mount on the belt side and raise the engine really high?

I'm not sure about the tappets though...

 

[mick wilson]

Hiya,

The doughnut I meant was the engine mount accessable via the offside wheelarch. If you undo the 3 bolts attaching it to the chassis then the middle bolt holding the mount in place you can remove it ( with a little persuasion ).

This enables you to jack up the engine another few inches or so. Once you have the height you need to prise the engine away from the chassis by putting a metal bar through the remainder of the engine mount that is still bolted to the engine ( ie the "u" shaped bit ) and stand on it.

This is where we needed two people as when one is doing the above another prises the engine away form the chassis by the steady bar at the strut top.


Dont get me wrong it's not easy going but persist and the tensioner will come off.

Cheers.