General 2.0 20v ReMap - Power increase?

[bulldog5046]

i dont know how you cant call it a performance car? but i do remember someone saying they couldnt get an exhause system for the marea weekend because someone didnt think it was a performance car but they thought 1.1 106 and paxo were performance cars

lets face it, the 2.0 20v is going to give most things a good run for their money.

 

[dave]

Cool, have I been promoted?

nar thats my secret way of brining the thread to some ones attention

 

[Fernando]

Would they be the Marea 2.0 20v turbo's in Brazil? If so they run on rubbish petrol (alcohol) which gives them less power. A 20v turbo should get the same power as a coupe which is around 220bhp.

Not sure what can be done with a NA 2.0 20v though.

HEHEHE, I'm sorry I've been so absent I had not seen this post...
I am from Brazil and own a 2.4 liter Marea (just recently remaped) and I must point out some wrong ideas some seem to have about Brazil's petrol and Mareas.
First of all, the Brazilian Marea Turbo has only 180BHP because of tax exemptions given to cars that fall around this power range. Secondly, with a simple remapping (it costs about one hundred pounds) the car not only reaches Fiat's coupe 220BHPS but easily surpasses it (it can go up til 260 BHP, ONLY with the remaping).
The petrol has nothing top do with it.
Another point, Brazilian petrol is just as good as any petrol (although petrol stations have been know to doctor petrol ). As far as alcohool goes, we have cars (almost half of the total car's running) that use ONLY alcohool, and I must say it far surpasses petrol not only because alcohool comes from cana de açucar (sorry, forgot the name in english - sugar cane?), wich is grown, but it also has more octanage (spl?). So, the SAME car, if it were to run on alcohool would have more BHPs than if it were to run on petrol.
ALSO, here in Brazil we have cars that run on petrol AND on alcohool, whichever the driver chooses, so I guess this sets us apart from the rest of the world on that regard. Fight as you will over middle east, we, for a long time now, don't have need or want for it's petrol
Well, as for my 2.4 marea, it has recently been overhawled, having received a full remap, a new exhaust system, and a K&N air filter, jumping it's BHP from 160 to 180...
So, say what you like about my country, but don't say we are behind yours when it comes to Marea's performance or our fuel

 

[Fernando]

Ranting aside, I would like to contribute with power hungry drivers such as myself, by saying that the Marea's air intake system is rubbish, and in extensive tests it has been found out that by bypassing the air intake (airfilter onwards) you can gain up to 12 BHPs (!!!). So, in general, if you shell out some money and buy a K&N's in a box air filter you should gain about 6 to 8 BHPs on your Mareas (it may not seem much, but you will feel quite a difference when pushing that pedal to the metal )...

 

[HP]

Nice one, any pictures of an ideal system?

 

[Snoopie]

Can i have some of what you're all on? How you actually think 8bhp is possible from an Air Filter i don't know. Especially 140bhp car. Even on a 280 bhp car. About 4 bhp is the maximum you could possibly recieve. I have a fully installed KnN 57i induction kit installed on my Fiat. The fiat may not be accurate coming out of the factory with 107bhp. But if it were, then i gained 1bhp. I installed a viper system on my Fiesta, i lost 1bhp. So they gain and lose... Despite what a manufacturer says. But if you honestly think that your air filter will give you 6bhp to 8bhp. Then i honestly believe that your blue led's on your jetwashers will also give you 10bhp.

 

[Fernando]

Can i have some of what you're all on? How you actually think 8bhp is possible from an Air Filter i don't know. Especially 140bhp car. Even on a 280 bhp car. About 4 bhp is the maximum you could possibly recieve. I have a fully installed KnN 57i induction kit installed on my Fiat. The fiat may not be accurate coming out of the factory with 107bhp. But if it were, then i gained 1bhp. I installed a viper system on my Fiesta, i lost 1bhp. So they gain and lose... Despite what a manufacturer says. But if you honestly think that your air filter will give you 6bhp to 8bhp. Then i honestly believe that your blue led's on your jetwashers will also give you 10bhp.

Actually, you can.
You are very much mistaken and I have the dina's results to show you...
Firstly, my car is not the English Marea, it's a Brazilian Marea with, says FIAT, 160 BHp.
Secondly, FIAT's air intake is rubbish as I said before. Do yourself a test (only for a little while, because your engine will be running unprotected), take the airfilter off along with it's casing and go out for a spin (remember to give your car's electronic fuel injection time to adapt to the greater amount of air coming in), and tell me if you can feel the difference...
I bet you'll be impressed.
Thirdly, here are the dina's results from my car's remapping:
The "s/filtro" curve stands for the car's performance WITHOUT the air filter (red), the "c/filtro" stands for the car's performance WITH the air filter (blue), the "cv" following the numbers 'equals' to "bhp" (actually the conversion rate is: 1 CV = 0.98632 BHP)..
Now, tell me, are you high yet?

 

[Snoopie]

Good job i understand Portuguese. But now your telling me... a completely different story, about taking off the induction system? Why the hell would you drive around with out one? Just because you have a rolling road graph. Doesnt mean thats the exact amount you will get. Go to 3 different rolling roads, and i bet you you'll have 3 different charts! I think the rolling road people were conning you.

 

[Snoopie]

I saw once, on a Honda Civic Type R, Forced induction, you know the leaf blowers? Those big powerful machines... I saw a guy, put in one in his induction system (only for a rolling road test) Which created more a lot more power than any standard possible air. He gained 6bhp. On an ACCURATE rolling road. I don't have to sit here and argue with you, with you hoping your air filter will give you 12bhp. If you really believe it, then good luck.

 

[Fernando]

Good job i understand Portuguese. But now your telling me... a completely different story, about taking off the induction system? Why the hell would you drive around with out one? Just because you have a rolling road graph. Doesnt mean thats the exact amount you will get. Go to 3 different rolling roads, and i bet you you'll have 3 different charts! I think the rolling road people were conning you.

Which completely different story? I am saying the exact same thing.
Another thing, again you are mistaken on your oppinion about rolling tests...
This particular result was obtained on my car, but there are plenty of others that give the exact same amount 12BHP. Of course, if you put your car on lousy dyna with lousy personel, that's a different story, but this happens to be one of Brazil's most reliable shops (and that's saying a lot given our racing history)...
That being said, the less restrictive filter you use, the better the results (12BHP being the most). If you re-read my post, you'll see I said half this value could come with a proper air intake system, not WITHOUT any.
It so happens that the air intake (before the filter) is WAY too restrictive, and if you manage to put in another one (I forgot what do you guys call it, a 'cup'?) that 'captures' more air and takes it to a less restrictive filter you'll be sure to gain that amount on a MAREA.
Remember, I'm not saying that you'll gain that on a BMW or a Porshe or any other car for that matter (I wouldn't know), but as I said many times before, Marea's intake system is rubbish...

 

[Fernando]

I saw once, on a Honda Civic Type R, Forced induction, you know the leaf blowers? Those big powerful machines... I saw a guy, put in one in his induction system (only for a rolling road test) Which created more a lot more power than any standard possible air. He gained 6bhp. On an ACCURATE rolling road. I don't have to sit here and argue with you, with you hoping your air filter will give you 12bhp. If you really believe it, then good luck.

Hey snoopie, chill out... No need to get upset...
Listen it's an ACCURATE 'rolling road' as you call it, secondly, I/we are talking about MAREA's not Hondas or any other car, it's a big difference...
Another thing, I believe you, having been proven wrong are using that age old 'work around' called "misquoting". Sadly, my post is right above yours for all to see...
I NEVER said you would gain 12 BHPs WITH an airfilter (restrictive or not). I said that WITHOUT one you would ON A MAREA.
What I meant was that if you were to put a less restrictive air filter ON A MAREA, you would and will gain around 6-8 BHPs (the exact amount depending on wehter it's a "in a box" or if you mount one that completely bypasses the original air intake).
Don't be mad and start a fight, and as you said, believe what you will... Cheers

 

[Snoopie]

Honda Civic Type R has a better intake system. And they used forced air. Which was my point, about the Fiat. You are so over optimistic thats it not even worth arguing with you. But i want you to take a look at something!
Scroll down to Air Filters - http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/gentune.htm

 

[Snoopie]

It may talk about Puma Racing, but it infacts relates to all cars, it just highlights the amount of **** which you talk ... Just out of interest... How old are you?

 

[Fernando]

Honda Civic Type R has a better intake system. And they used forced air. Which was my point, about the Fiat. You are so over optimistic thats it not even worth arguing with you. But i want you to take a look at something!
Scroll down to Air Filters - http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/gentune.htm

EXACTLY!! That's my whole point! Thank you!
Honda's, for example, air intake system is ALREADY optimized, as Marea's is RUBBISH, thus, by bypassing it or optimizing it you'll gain extra BHPs that wouldn't normally be gained on other cars...

 

[Snoopie]

TUNING ITEM WITH EXPECTED POWER GAIN
MILD ROAD/FAST ROAD CAM 4% TO 7%
ROAD/RALLY CAM 8% TO 12%
EXHAUST SYSTEM 0% TO 5%
AIR FILTER NIL
CONE FILTER TYPE INDUCTION SYSTEM 0% TO 3%
FLOW BENCH DEVELOPED STANDARD VALVE HEAD - 2V HEADS 10% TO 15% (MORE ON EXCEPTIONAL ENGINES)
FLOW BENCH DEVELOPED BIG VALVE HEAD - 2V HEADS 20% TO 25% (MAYBE UP TO 35% ON EXCEPTIONAL ENGINES)
FLOW BENCH DEVELOPED STANDARD VALVE HEAD - 4V HEADS 10%
FLOW BENCH DEVELOPED BIG VALVE HEAD - 4V HEADS 20%
DCOEs REPLACING SINGLE CARB 10%
THROTTLE BODIES REPLACING PLENUM INJECTION 15% TO 20%

 

[Fernando]

It may talk about Puma Racing, but it infacts relates to all cars, it just highlights the amount of **** which you talk ... Just out of interest... How old are you?

Man, that last statement proves you took this personal. And your response falls into the trolling definition, so I will not dignify that with an answer...
Believe what you will...
Geez, and I am the childish one, eh?

 

[Snoopie]

EXACTLY!! That's my whole point! Thank you!
Honda's, for example, air intake system is ALREADY optimized, as Marea's is RUBBISH, thus, by bypassing it or optimizing it you'll gain extra BHPs that wouldn't normally be gained on other cars...

As i said, the Honda's air filter, was already bypassed for this experiment and also using the power of forced induction from a leaf blower. Result - 6bhp.

 

[sammiboo]

It may talk about Puma Racing, but it infacts relates to all cars......

Can you please refrain from abusing other members and keep things adult and friendly please!!!!

 

[Hellcat]

Ok before this gets too personal I think I need to highlight what Fernando is trying to say. He's not saying that dropping any changed air filter will result in a 6-8bhp increase on any car.. What he is saying is the particular air path on the marea is more restrictive than is normal for a car of its age/engine size.

To quote Kia.. Think about it.. If you're air intake consisted of a 20m long hose wrapped around the car twice you would be heavily restricted on your intake and your BHP would suffer terribly.

The same applies on a smaller scale with the standard marea intake. It's full of tight corners and small diameters. Whip the whole thing off and wham! the engine can breathe. Not great since its not protected so you lose about half your 'gain' by putting the best air filter you can on the car.

 

[Snoopie]

Can you please refrain from abusing other members and keep things adult and friendly please!!!!

No.