Tuning 100 hp ragazzon question

[jusdel30]

ello peeps i have a standard 100hp and want to but a new razzagon backbox for it. do i need the larger pipe with silencer or the n-group smaller pipe for a better sound than standard issue fiat one? will i stay legal e.t.c.? do i need to mess round with the rest of the exhaust or just replace backbox? will the larger one with silencer fit as standard or cut away some more bumper?

cheers for any suggestions

 

[jusdel30]

well its on order, sweet sound inc!

 

[Stram]

ello peeps i have a standard 100hp and want to but a new razzagon backbox for it. do i need the larger pipe with silencer or the n-group smaller pipe for a better sound than standard issue fiat one? will i stay legal e.t.c.? do i need to mess round with the rest of the exhaust or just replace backbox? will the larger one with silencer fit as standard or cut away some more bumper?

cheers for any suggestions

I'll try to answer to all your questions:

- Both Ragazzon rear silencers fit as standard; no need to cut away the bumper.

- Both produce better sound, but the group-N is a bit noisy (I suggest the larger one. It's legal for sure. The group-N is destined for track use).

- No need to change the full exhaust system. Keep in mind that if you decide to do so, the manifold goes together with the catalyst (since the standard manifold and catalyst are one piece). Together with the 2 silencers, the full exhaust is too noisy, thus not street legal.

- Also by changing the full exhaust system you'll be required to install an air intake system and to chip-tune the ECU (don't want to mess with all that).

Bottom line, for better sound and improved performance I recommend only the following:
- The Ragazzon rear silencer (the large one)
- The BMC CDA induction kit (special version for Panda 100hp with the silicone red hoses / not the universal kit); fits as standard replacing the air filter box (no need to change the air filter every now and then)

Both fitted require no further tuning; make a bit of a bass sound at idle and a kind of race sound at high rpms. Also they increase the engine performance, rev speed and produce +6hp on the dynometer.

Cheers

 

[randysbits]

:yeahthat: That's exactly what you will get

Having the straight through section will deepen the sound, sounds great burbling away at idle & howls like a race car @high rpm's like Stram says, if you having the large back box, loose that centre silencer, sounds drastic but, that rear back box really does quieten things down to a sensible level.
You could maybe get a local custom exhaust specialist to copy, that part to run straight through to the flexi where it joins to the mani-cat, might save some pennies but, at least you will have a centre section running right up to the flexi & including if you specify this as, you will be a few inches short with a standard Ragazzon item as is has been manufactured to work with the rest of their performance system (including a 200 cell sport cat).
If you go for the Ragazzon centre section, it will sleeve over the original part of the exhaust easy enough providing, the person carrying out the task of fitting it leaves enough overlap to mate to the original part of the system.

 

[jusdel30]

ive ordered the large ragazzon one then and will do a straight through to the cat i spect-mechanic can sort all those bitsm air filter system inc then-just wanted a nice sound but not deafening-i prefer to think of the 100hp as stealth lol

 

[midget4hire]

Why do ppl recomend the bmc over a gsr kit? Isnt the bmc over £200?

 

[jusdel30]

£220 i think m8. The gsr one is proving difficult to get hold of the bloke who makes them seems to be uncontactable at the moment and the forum he is now affiliated to is not accepting my registration details grrrr!

 

[Stram]

Why do ppl recomend the bmc over a gsr kit? Isnt the bmc over £200?

I do know that the BMC induction kit is more expensive that the GSR one, but it's something totally different with regard not only to design and appearance but to performance too.

The GSR induction kit is nothing more than a conical air filter with a hose attached to it. It sucks more air (than the standard air filter).

The BMC CDA induction kit / special version for Panda 100hp (the one with the silicone red hoses / not the universal kit) is a CDA (Carbon Dynamic Airbox) designed specifically for the Panda 100HP. The BMC conical air filter (like GSR's) is covered by a cylindrical box made from real carbon fibre resistant to the engine's temperature, very lightweight with hoses from real silicone (resistant to extreme pressure and engine's temperature too). The air coming in the CDA works like the "Bernoulli effect" in physics, where the air travelling through a narrow corridor increases its speed in the CDA box to the conical air filter (higher air speed=more density=more Oxygen=better burn=increased performance).

That's why BMC over the GSR (I've tried them both). The BMC is the best for the Panda 100HP and worth every penny.

Sorry if my English is not perfect (I’m not an English native speaker).

 

[laverda]

I bougth mine from this guy in Germany

http://www.atb-tuning.de/shop/BMC-Carbon-Airbox-Kit-Fiat-Panda-II-detail-2023.htm

I don't know the price in UK

 

[Stram]

I bougth mine from this guy in Germany

I don't know the price in UK

I bought mine from the UK (cheaper than Germany). The online shop is the Crest Motorsport UK / the price 217.72p.

(sorry! the system does not allow me to show you the link cause I have less than 5 posts).

Also found another online shop: DC Performance UK / the price 202.04p.
Even cheaper than Crest but has much more postal fees for sending abroad.

If you live within continental UK try the DC Performance. It's the cheapest I found in the whole Europe!!!
Believe me I searched more than ten countries to find the cheapest BMC induction kit for my Panda.

If you google those shops you'll find a picture of the BMC CDA universal kit with the black hoses. Don't go for that!
Ask for the special CDA version for the Panda 100HP with the red hoses. If you fail to do so, they will send you the universal kit which has not silicone hoses and it is not specifically for the Panda 100HP.

Cheers

 

[babbo_umbro]

....The air coming in the CDA works like the "Bernoulli effect" in physics, where the air travelling through a narrow corridor increases its speed in the CDA box to the conical air filter (higher air speed=more density=more Oxygen=better burn=increased performance)....

That's totally wrong - the higher air speed in a venturi goes with lower pressure, not higher - if the speed goes up the energy has to come from somewhere and it comes from a drop in pressure - that's why two thirds of the lift on a plane's wing comes from the Bernoulli effect on the top surface. I don't know whether or not this induction system improves performance - though I'm prepared to be sceptical - but it can't do it by the means you describe. Think about it - the logical extension of your statement is to make a very small pipe to the air box so that the air goes extremely fast - that's obviously not going to work. The most likely source of any increase is a reduction in the restriction caused by the filter element - as this is often accompanied by increased induction noise some people are convinced that their engine is producing more power when it's just producing more decibels.

 

[Stram]

That's totally wrong - the higher air speed in a venturi goes with lower pressure, not higher - if the speed goes up the energy has to come from somewhere and it comes from a drop in pressure - that's why two thirds of the lift on a plane's wing comes from the Bernoulli effect on the top surface. I don't know whether or not this induction system improves performance - though I'm prepared to be sceptical - but it can't do it by the means you describe. Think about it - the logical extension of your statement is to make a very small pipe to the air box so that the air goes extremely fast - that's obviously not going to work. The most likely source of any increase is a reduction in the restriction caused by the filter element - as this is often accompanied by increased induction noise some people are convinced that their engine is producing more power when it's just producing more decibels.

As I already mentioned I'm not a native English speaker (this is not an excuse). What I tried to descibe is that the box sends air with higher speed to the conical air filter (inside) which filter works the way you described!!!
As for the result / performance, although with most cases it's true that the higher noise make make people believe higher performance, with this CDA induction kit, the dynometer has given +4 HP for the Panda 100HP.

 

[Stu DemonD]

How has this gone from Ragazzon to BMC v GSR, which has been done loads of times before.

Stram, do you have a before and after Rolling Road graph? One with both on would be nice

 

[jusdel30]

does anyone have part number of the red hose one plz? they only have the black ones on display. i also have 1 new BMC panel filter for sale as well as a 3zero snooper unit brand new. it dont work with fiat 100hp coz the engines trip the laser alert every time you put your foot on accelarator! lol

 

[jusdel30]

found one in the uk sorted!

 

[jusdel30]

thankyou for the help too fellas, nice to see some good answers and a forum busy.

 

[Stram]

does anyone have part number of the red hose one plz? they only have the black ones on display. i also have 1 new BMC panel filter for sale as well as a 3zero snooper unit brand new. it dont work with fiat 100hp coz the engines trip the laser alert every time you put your foot on accelarator! lol

The BMC part number (with the red silicone hoses is
BMC Carbon Dynamic Air Box No. CDASP-38

 

[Stram]

How has this gone from Ragazzon to BMC v GSR, which has been done loads of times before.

Stram, do you have a before and after Rolling Road graph? One with both on would be nice

The figures mentioned (102hp prior - 106hp after for the BMC alone) and for the Ragazzon + BMC 102hp prior - 108 hp after where mentioned on an auto magazine and a national forum. The graphs are not in my possession.

 

[midget4hire]

That can be different for many cars of the same model. Another 100hp could run at 98bhp or 104bhp standard. im yet to see any graphs from a panda 100hp though

Sorry Stu for awaying the conversation off topic, but we both know that the GSR kits are the dogs B******s and have so far provided the best gains compared with the BMC which is, as far as i can see, the same design for every make/model. the GSR is custom to each engine size

 

[Stram]

That can be different for many cars of the same model. Another 100hp could run at 98bhp or 104bhp standard. im yet to see any graphs from a panda 100hp though

Sorry Stu for awaying the conversation off topic, but we both know that the GSR kits are the dogs B******s and have so far provided the best gains compared with the BMC which is, as far as i can see, the same design for every make/model. the GSR is custom to each engine size

No need to argue. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. For me the GSR has the same conical air filter for every car with a different design of the hose for every model (just that). The same is for the BMC for some models.
But BMC has developed the Special Series designed specifically for not only model but engine type and even specially for the Panda 100 HP.
Just google "BMC Carbon Dynamic Air Box No. CDASP-38" to see.

As for the graphs indeed the standard model produces between 98 and even 105 HP (I read on a Netherlander forum). I've seen some graphs but nobody knows if they are only with air induction kit alone or with exhaust or even ecu reprogramming. Is what their owners claim to be their graph. Me as a reader decide to believe or not.

Thank you for the kind exchange of ideas and experiences.