Technical 1.6 driveshaft housing / gearbox failure (with pictures)

[roy lovelock]

Its a big BIG dirty job..... I couldnt possibly do a walkthru as i usually take things as i find them and there is a lot of work to do. There are no special tools needed, Just good quality socket set and spanners and torque wrench, unless you like to line up the clutch plates with a lining tool but i found it easy without one. Even the clutch was held in with the same sort of bolts as the battery cover, an allum key done that job.
You dont even have to remove the ball joints on the stilo to pop the drive shafts, all you need to do is remove the front bolt on the lower wishbone and this allows the whole assembly to move back giving enough clearance to pop the shafts out, but be aware you will need to make sure these are returned to there original tightness (i personally re-newed the bolts as im sure they are stretch bolts).
roy

 

[Deckchair5]

Well done Roy! Licking the wounds I'll bet!
Great achievement as most of the Stilo stuff is pioneering into the unknown. Brunel would be proud

 

[alexGS]

Excellent work Roy.
I'm a bit confused about what you did to fix the two large HOLES, however?!

And, what's the 'trumpet'?
Isn't that part of a Mini hydrolastic system?

Can you also please clarify - the planet gears shaft is in one piece? With a retaining pin at one end? So what caused the shaft to come out - was the retaining pin backed out or was it sheared? Thanks.

FIAT gearboxes have often been bad for me in the past, but not in a flying-apart sense (usually in worn/broken synchros and bearings). Interesting to hear that you replaced your synchros in a gearbox so new - how much did that cost and were all parts available (sliding hub etc. or did you change just the convex rings?)

I hope you're getting on with the Trading Standards case too, though not sure what compensation you'd expect now? It isn't acceptable to have that kind of failure. I admire the way that you just got on and fixed it, there aren't enough people like you left in the world Meanwhile I forlornly hope that the different-design box in my Stilo doesn't bust itself up in the same way.

Cheers,
-Alex

 

[PNL]

Hears a little snippet I found earlier scroll down and read what it says about the transmission I wonder how many of us earlier cars are still running around with the original unrevised gearboxes :chin:

 

[Big Black Stilo]

not me, im on my bloody third!

 

[PNL]

Hears a little snippet I found earlier scroll down and read what it says about the transmission I wonder how many of us earlier cars are still running around with the original unrevised gearboxes :chin:

Would have been handy if I had put the link in there


http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/usedcartests/39336/fiat_stilo.html

 

[Neptune]

Two years ago I posted a thread about a similar problem. In my case the pin fell out of the shaft that holds the two smaller gears in the diff. The result was that the shaft then moved outwards and smacked a great hole in the side of the gearbox and deposited a fair selection of pieces on my driveway - I had stoped to open the garage door when it let go. I reckon it would have been quite spectacular if I had been travelling at about 60 to 70mph! Worst thing was the FIAT service - it took them 4 weeks to approve the repair(entirely new gearbox.)

 

[Austin09]

I have had a very similar problem to Roy. I am at the stage of having taken off the gearbox and the diff and have examined the extent of the damage.

I have had a similar experience with a hole in the diff casing and the pin having come out (and broken off) and forcing its way through the casing.

I've been ringing around a few places to try and get the parts i need, but the guys at the Fiat dealership can't make sense of the eper manual and finding a matching second hand gearbox seems very unlikely.

Does anyone who can get on eper know if i can get the differential carrier seperately? (it has to be machined to get the pin out so needs replacing).
So far i am ok getting the housing, a new pin, the planet gears and the seals from FIAT, but i need to get the diff carrier if i am to be able to repair this.
I will also continue looking for a second hand one. I should mention however that i am after one with an electroni speedo, (unlike Roy's which has a mechanical speedo).

p.s. if i can get this successfully repaired this still isn't enough to put me off Stilos

 

[roy lovelock]

hi austin, mine was electronic on my box.
i take it you have found the problem with the roll pin then
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25741&d=1174656001

ake a look at that pic, where the bottom of the pin is by the side there is a lip that is where you need the diff milled to get access to the roll pin. once you havce milled that you can knock out the old pin and put a new one in.
is that what you mean by diff carrier?
or do you mean the shell outside the diff, if that is what you mean it comes with the new casing as its all the same part of the cast..

im pleased your getting a whole new casing, i was a bit warey when you said you was getting it welded, after all the work only to have a dodgy weld let it down would be a nightmare.

soz i couldnt reply to your email was at work and only just got up (yep nights again)
roy

 

[Austin09]

Yes Roy that the part that we have drilled through it was very soft. Managed to get the pin out. It is that part you have pictured (which i think is called the diff carrier) that i am trying to order new from FIAT but the only one i can find seems to be the gears and the carrier which is £500. I can get new planet gears and the pin etc and the housing which the diff sits in i am having welded because we know a really good aluminium welder. Fiat do supply a new only but this weld should be as good as new if this guy is as good as we hope he is!

The part number i think i will have to order (unless i get the diff casing welded too) is
46810249 which is the gears and carrier if i'm making correct sense of eper that is. According to eper this is £400 so ill check with FIAT today.

And apologies Roy i got confused yours is electronic ours is mechanical.

 

[Austin09]

Yes Roy that the part that we have drilled through it was very soft. Managed to get the pin out. It is that part you have pictured (which i think is called the diff carrier) that i am trying to order new from FIAT but the only one i can find seems to be the gears and the carrier which is £500. I can get new planet gears and the pin etc and the housing which the diff sits in i am having welded because we know a really good aluminium welder. Fiat do supply a new only but this weld should be as good as new if this guy is as good as we hope he is!

The part number i think i will have to order (unless i get the diff casing welded too) is
46810249 which is the gears and carrier if i'm making correct sense of eper that is. According to eper this is £400 so ill check with FIAT today.

And apologies Roy i got confused yours is electronic ours is mechanical.

Here is the picture i meant to attatch from eper.

 

[Austin09]

Hi guys another update re my gearbox problem. I am hoping to get the gearbox repaired to a level where i'm satisfied it'll last a long time rather than just a quick job getting back on the road.
I've got the diff casing welded up nicely and got a replacement diff.
The only other problem is the gearbox itself has sustained a bit of damage. The countershaft has some damage, some of the teeth are ok, others have gone through the hardening and may be cracked. The others i can stone off ok , or i can dig deep and pay FIAT £195 for a new counter shaft.

This is turning out to be a lot of trouble, and i've got to get it all back together after this. I've rung around a few breakers and not found a matching gearbox yet for my 54 plate 1.6 stilo. Aside from breakers can anyone suggest a place i can find a gearbox replacement? The only one that matched on ebay was broken but the guy still tried selling it as ok!!

Thanks again

 

[JTD_Liam]

I thought this problem was meant to only affect early Stilos - a 54 plate was after they carried out the first facelift so this must mean that it affects later models too.

Does anyone know if it affects just the 1.6 petrol? I think all the reports i've read are for the 1.6 & i know the 2.4 and 1.2/1.4 all used different gearboxes, but what about the 1.8 and the JTD's, as these also use 5 speed boxes?

 

[roy lovelock]

in not sure on the 1.8, it could be the same box as the 1.6 engine is very similar, but the 1.9 jtd has a different setup as far as i know, also the box has to deal with higher torque levels so i would have imagined it would be a more sturdier box, there hasnt been many if any exploded boxes reported as far as i know on the jtd. the slave cylinder is inside the box on jtd, but outside on the 1.6, there is also a dual mass flywheel on the jtd so the belhousing is deeper to accomidate the clutch and flywheel
roy

 

[Austin09]

Rather than start a new thread i though i'd update you guys with my progress and ask a question here.

Due to a very similar problem to that of Roy's i have had the diff casing replaced, diff pin, planet gears and counter shaft. This was done at a gearbox specialist although we took it off and stripped it down ourselves to keep the cost down.

My question is, now that the gearbox is off i've had a look at the clutch and it is is due a change in not too many miles so i have tried searching for a friction plate. I don't really need 3 piece kit since the fingers are ok since there is still some wear left on the friction plate.

If not, where would you recommend going for a new clutch since there are some huge varieties in price, so far i;ve found £60 on eurocar parts for a 3 piece "valeo) clutch.
Thanks

 

[PNL]

Valeo are very good but you can have a look here if you want..they do more that brakes as you will see..


http://www.car-brakes.co.uk/