Technical 2.4 20v manual - Possible to change clutch with engine in chassis?

[Jtelcs]

Hi all

I am trying to figure out if I need to take the engine out to change the clutch, DMF and slave cylinder - or if I could get the bell housing off through the left wheel arch with the engine still sitting in the chassis?

2.4 L 20V Abarth, manual 5 speed 3 door -Left hand drive. 100K km

Clutch pedal failed (went to the floor) and I am changing the master cylinder first. If that doesn’t fix the issue, I recon the next move is to change the internal slave cylinder. While doing that I would also get a new clutch and flywheel.

Doing the work in my driveway, and leaving the engine in would mean less cost as I would not need to buy an engine crane

Thanks for any thoughts or inputs.

 

[Maxcaddy]

I know that you can change the 1.8 Clutch with the engine in, as I did mine because like yours the clutch went to the floor. Not certain that the 2.4 isn't the same with the engine in, but it is a longer engine

 

[AnthonyH]

Get the Haynes manual, it will tell you for certain.

 

[Ralf S.]

It's a big job for a driveway.. If you get the gearbox out, there's the even more difficult task of getting it back in.

My JTD needed the battery box, intake pipes and airbox to be removed, and then the car lifted higher than you would usually jack it up, to get the gearbox out from under the car. I'd say you might struggle to get the box out on yours without an engine hoist... although the biggest PITA is the sub-frame. If you can move that out of the way, if not actually remove it altogether, then you might have space. Have a look and see what it looks like.


Ralf S.

 

[Jtelcs]

Thanks for the input Ralf

 

[Przemek1986]

It's difficult, but not impossible. There is another problem, the clutch itself is very difficult to buy. I had to send mine for regeneration.

 

[Jtelcs]

I ended up taking out the engine. Difficult job to do one person in a sloping gravel driveway - but I've succeded and the clutch is now bled and functioning well. On assembly, I have 2 issues or questions.

1: The gear selection seems to require more force than before. Fluid was drained from the gearbox and refilled with two litres (1,76 kg) of gearbox oil. Dipstick show the level of oil to be correct. Any ideas where to look for the reason for the change in force required to shift?

2: The cooling pipes going through the firewall - the part that is hard pipe mounted in the firewall has two retaining edges on them. I can only get the rubber hoses that connect to reach the first. Should it reach the second? (I don't remember how far in they were mounted on disassembly).

Thanks for any advice

 

[AnthonyH]

Is it difficult to shift into gear when the engine is running but easy when it's off? If so it'll be the clutch.

 

[Jtelcs]

engine is not running - yet

 

[AnthonyH]

The gear tower turret has possibly degraded when it was disconnected. You could check it for movement that shouldn't be there.

 

[Jtelcs]

Thanks AnthonyH, The gear tower turret seems fine, though the movement of the reverse tower seems to drag or require more effort to move than intended. Not the actual lift function, but the turning of the pin. I will try and lube with lithium greese and see if it changes anything.

Attaching a picture of the pipes going through the firewall (second question) - from the dirt it seems like the hoses locks on to the first retaining edge.

 

[Maxcaddy]

I have 2 issues or questions.

1: Fluid was drained from the gearbox and refilled with two litres (1,76 kg) of gearbox oil. Dipstick show the level of oil to be correct.

Assume you mean refilled with two litres of 'the correct' gearbox oil, which is probably very thin, compared to some old SAE 90, and I'm unsure that there is a 'gearbox dipstick' on my Abarth ?

Btw, congratulations on getting it done .

 

[Jtelcs]

Assume you mean refilled with two litres of 'the correct' gearbox oil, which is probably very thin, compared to some old SAE 90, and I'm unsure that there is a 'gearbox dipstick' on my Abarth ?

Btw, congratulations on getting it done .

yeah. I found it quite difficult to find a uniform answer to the "correct" gearbox oil. I ended up adding going with Valvoline Gear Oil 75W-80.

There is a dipstick on both my 5-speed manual 2.4 abarth engines.

Thanks, it only took 8 months and ended up being the slave cylinder that was faulty - lol. I'm hoping to finish assembly in a few days.

 

[Maxcaddy]

Interesting, so looking into the engine bay from the front, with the engine slightly on the left and the battery on the right, can you guide me to where is the gearbox dipstick is located ?

 

[Jtelcs]

it's easier to see if you take out the left hand side wheel and arch. On the back of gearbox if you are standing in front of your vehicle.

(on the picture my finger is not pointing at it, but it is right next to the end of the green rope)

 

[Jtelcs]

The gear tower turret has possibly degraded when it was disconnected. You could check it for movement that shouldn't be there.

On further inspection today I realise that the movement of the turret vertically requires more force on the installed engine than on my spare engine. That must be the cause, but how to fix it? My shop manual has very limited info...

 

[Maxcaddy]

Very interesting, I'll put it over the pit later this week and have a good look

 

[Jtelcs]

It was a short feeling of success

After reinstalling the engine, adding coolant and firing up the engine I noticed decreasing ressistance on the clutch pedal.... upon inspection fluid was oozing out between the bell housing and the engine. I guess I did not use enough liquid gasket between the new slave cylinder and gearbox or did not tighten the bolts enough (I as trying not to strip the threads in the gearbox so tightening to 8 Nm).

Anyone with experience in this repair that has some tips? Out with the engine again... /sigh

 

[Maxcaddy]

'fluid was oozing' means clutch fluid was oozing ?

If that's the case I can't see how the g/box to slave connection would be the issue ?. Surely it's either the concentric slave itself, or the hose connection to it, which will be the culprit ?

 

[Jtelcs]

'fluid was oozing' means clutch fluid was oozing ?

If that's the case I can't see how the g/box to slave connection would be the issue ?. Surely it's either the concentric slave itself, or the hose connection to it, which will be the culprit ?

Thanks Maxcaddy, it was gearbox oil that was oozing and not clutch fluid. Thank you for clearing up confusion. I cleaned up the connection and applied more liquid gasket on the second try and all seems to be working good now. Not really easy to bleed the clutch though. Maybe new o-rings on the connection to the slave cylinder would help.