Technical 1.2 timing belt change question without locking kit - tensioner setting

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Technical 1.2 timing belt change question without locking kit - tensioner setting

in your list the bottom one is for the16V engines
They list the 500 2007+ models, I didn't think they done a 1.2 16v engine.

The plan had been not to take the cam cover off, leave well alone and all that.
Thanks for the info
 
They list the 500 2007+ models, I didn't think they done a 1.2 16v engine.

The plan had been not to take the cam cover off, leave well alone and all that.
Thanks for the info
up to you its only something like 8 bolts and is only a cover. Gasket is probably getting towards needing to be replaced they often weep slightly from here

this tool locks the vvt pully and is from the front. The little pip meshes into tooth on the vvt pully and stops it moving. This and the one that looks like a lollypop will lock both the cam and Crank from the front. The bolt is on the wrong side. The 90 degree lip goes against the casting just below the vvt so it only fits one way

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There seem to be about 3 types, most look like this:

But there are also these listed for the fiat 1.2:
Koalar is telling you just about all you need to know about the locking tools. The top kit you show is the one you want for the 8 valve engine as it includes the wee locking block for locking up the VVT top sprocket if you ever undo it's retaining bolt. However if you decide not to undo the top sprocket bolt then you just need the crank locking tool (round end with 3 bolt holes in it) and cam locking bar (with angled locking face which fits in the slot on the end of the cam) and maybe the two pronged tensioning tool, but you can get round it by using something like right angled circlip pliers.
Here's a couple of pictures of the Neilsen set I bought:
P1090690.JPG
P1090692.JPG
P1090693.JPG


I've noticed that some of the manufacturers of these kits seem to get very confused about which engines their kits fit. In fact you'll notice mine says it does the 16 valve engines - it definitely does not - You need the bottom kit with the two rods in it which go down the spark plug holes so you can set the engine with all pistons at "half mast" and the two screw in cam locking tools. The second kit you show is missing the top sprocket locking block (as I mentioned above) and if you look at my last picture, bottom left, that's it with the silver coloured Allen (hex head) bolt. By the way, at it's 2 o'clock you can see another wee block which is actually a flywheel locking block I made up and is not part of this kit - It's just a convenient place for it to "live".

Koalar is talking above about "cheap" kits and if you really want to save money, have decided not to slacken the cam sprocket and are confident in what you are doing, I've seen offers for just the black crankshaft and silver cam locking tools on their own - you could then use circlip pliers - or similar - on the tensioner and do it very cheaply. If you've any doubts about the cam timing though you do need the whole "shebang". On reflection, it's not a lot of money, just buy the complete kit. Do a couple of mate's cars and you'll be in pocket? Of course if you need to change the cam seal, as Koalar says, you're going to need the whole kit anyway.

More good advice being given above regarding the belt tensioning. Having fitted the new belt you rotate the tensioner against it's spring tension until it stops - so the spring is fully wound up - then turn the engine over a few times, minimum of two crankshaft revs to check the valves and pistons aren't "getting friendly". Do this with plugs out so you can "feel" obstructions more sensitively and turning the crankshaft very slowly so there is no kinetic energy stored in the flywheel to bend a valve - could happen if you turn it over "enthusiastically". Doing this (turning the crankshaft with the tensioner fully wound up) settles the belt into it's running position (and lets you see it's not trying to do something "strange") By the way, looking at the cam sprocket, they all seem to run the belt more towards the back (towards the head) of the sprocket, not right in the middle. Having carried out this initial "settling in" manual turning of the crank I tend to turn the crankshaft until the line on the crank sprocket itself lines up with the corresponding casting mark in the casting of the oil pump. Then slacken the tensioner until there is next to no spring tension being applied and then retighten it until the two pointers line up - overlapping - as they are meant to and fully tighten it's bolt

I think it's relevant to appreciate these belts don't really "stretch" in the way that timing chains do. If you look at how the belt is constructed it's strength comes from a long continuous cord (Kevlar in most, I think) which is wound round and round, lengthways, under the top covering of the belt. Outside it is the smooth surface the tensioner runs against and on the other side is the teeth. The continuous cord just really doesn't stretch. However the other constituents compress , especially the teeth. If you're ever looking at a high mileage belt and trying to decide whether it's likely to fail then look very carefully at the base of the teeth, they start cracking here first, it's where the driving load - a shearing force - is most felt between the belt and teeth. Old belts tend to crack also on their outer face where the tensioner bears against them. If you can see any defects then it's definitely time to renew it! I mention above about them not stretching because, with modern, automatic, spring loaded, tensioners once the tension is set the very small amount of variation in tension caused by the belt outer face and teeth wearing "compacting" is easily taken up by the spring action. So once fitted and tensioned correctly you can just forget about them. The older engines - our old MK1 Panda Parade was one (the one in my avatar picture) - had fixed, non spring loaded, tensioners. With this type I always check on belt tension after they've had around 500 to 1000 miles of "running in" as a bit of slack can develop due to the "settling in".
 
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They list the 500 2007+ models, I didn't think they done a 1.2 16v engine.

The plan had been not to take the cam cover off, leave well alone and all that.
Thanks for the info
If you are literally doing it with tippex you don't need to remove the cam cover - I think this is one reason why the wee garages around here favour this method because it makes the job much quicker! However the cam cover gaskets do seem to get a bit "weepy" as they age and many on here have taken the opportunity to renew them when doing the belt. so you might want to have a good close look at yours?

Edit. If you do decide to renew the gasket, obviously you will carefully clean and degrease where it mates to head and cover but also worth knowing that they tend to leak at any corner - especially where it goes over the cam - so a wee bit of silicon sealant in the coerners doesn't go amiss.
 
If you are literally doing it with tippex you don't need to remove the cam cover - I think this is one reason why the wee garages around here favour this method because it makes the job much quicker! However the cam cover gaskets do seem to get a bit "weepy" as they age and many on here have taken the opportunity to renew them when doing the belt. so you might want to have a good close look at yours?

Edit. If you do decide to renew the gasket, obviously you will carefully clean and degrease where it mates to head and cover but also worth knowing that they tend to leak at any corner - especially where it goes over the cam - so a wee bit of silicon sealant in the coerners doesn't go amiss.
 
Thanks, it's a growing shopping list for this job, not forgetting the sump needs done too.

Is fiat best option for belt and kit? or are their known good non-fiat suppliers
 
Thanks, it's a growing shopping list for this job, not forgetting the sump needs done too.

Is fiat best option for belt and kit? or are their known good non-fiat suppliers
for things like belt "critical" parts

I normally use a local motor factors. Here near Crewe both CES and General Traffic supply to the motor trade. They only use quality parts. They can't afford warranty claims. Ebay is difficult, there's no guarantee the brand you buy is the brand you get. Its only a printed label, some will be original parts but some will be clones/fake

Watch the tensioner, some of the cheaper kits dont include the centre spring part
 
Like Jack I'm keen on Gates too. Been using them all my life and never known a failure. However I think any "big name" will be absolutely fine.

As to suppliers Your local trade factors won't muck about with rubbish, their reputation is too important, and most will sell to "Joe public" - If in doubt go in wearing a pair of nice, somewhat greasy, overalls. I like Shop4parts too but tend to use them for more "specifically Fiat" stuff. I have bought from the internet too but life gets more difficult if the wrong part arrives and you have to return it. Also some of these online sites seem to warehouse in Europe and people on here have written of considerable delivery times holding them back.
 
I do like gates, just double checking as many years ago I had a tipo where some non-fiat parts didn't quite fit right.
 
There seem to be about 3 types, most look like this:

But there are also these listed for the fiat 1.2:
Top set does 8v and 16v. Second set is all you need for the 8v engine. Bottom set, looks like some extra holding rods of some sort, possibly for later engines. not necessary for your engine.
 
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