General 09 Ducato starting issue

[Paddedjohn]

Hi all newby here after some help/advice. Ducato 2.3, 2009
I was driving my van at about 60mph and it cut out and wouldn’t restart. It turns over but won’t fire up. I have renewed the earth strap, checked to cut off in passenger footwell and had the ecu checked out too but still no joy. Looks like it’s a fuel problem, would the immobiliser be the cause of my problems? I have a warning light on the dash, amber key with padlock on it. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[rayc]

It will not start whilst the 'padlock' warning light is on.
I have attached the relevant e-learn section. It may be worth checking the antenna fitted to the key surround,

 

[Communicator]

Hi all newby here after some help/advice. Ducato 2.3, 2009
I was driving my van at about 60mph and it cut out and wouldn’t restart. It turns over but won’t fire up. I have renewed the earth strap, checked to cut off in passenger footwell and had the ecu checked out too but still no joy. Looks like it’s a fuel problem, would the immobiliser be the cause of my problems? I have a warning light on the dash, amber key with padlock on it. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

If your van is not a UK converted motorhome, you should have a key code card, which provides key details and a code for use in the energency start procedure. However if the vehivle is pre-owned these details may not have been handed over. The emergency start procedure is given in drivers manual,

I am concernad about the safety implications of ,this anti-start device seemingly operating while the the vehicle was travelling at 60mph.

 

[Paddedjohn]

If vehicle cuts out when driving I’ve been told that this can’t be an immobiliser problem, any ideas? Been off the road for months now

 

[2011 3L L4H2]

Hmmmm. So I have a very similar problem...... albeit semi-intermittent. 2011 3.OL starts first time every time if been left overnight but if its been driven recently starting is hit & miss - sometimes it does and sometimes not (usually not when this would be the most inconvenient and embarrassing! Like being at the head of the queue of vehicles on the Cook Straight Ferry waiting to disembark). However, we've found about 12 minutes of patience results in a clean start. The trick is the patience bit..... 11 minutes no start....... so several 11 minites (or less) can get very frustrating. ECU reprogramming did not assist - although this was more to remove the 100kph speed limit set for original use by FIAT......and better fuel economy. Any similar experiences and suggested fixes out there?

 

[rayc]

If vehicle cuts out when driving I’ve been told that this can’t be an immobiliser problem, any ideas? Been off the road for months now

Even so if the 'padlock' lamp is lit it will not start. Sort that first

 

[Communicator]

I agree with @rayc that the vehicle will not start when the "padlock" is showing.

Is there any previous history of the padlock symbol remaining lit?

Have the keys been dropped on hard surface so as damage the chip.

Do you have other keys on the same key ring, which could absorb the weak radio signals?

If you read the eLearn description of the code system kindly posted by rayc you wiil see that the key is rcognised by the body computer (BCM), which interchanges a secret code with the ecu. Also it is the BCM which illuminates the padlock symbol when the key is not recognised.

I observe that you have had the ecu tested, but you have not mentioned any checks on the BCM and receiving aerial, which is moulded into a black plastic ring surrounding the ignition switch, and is connected to the BCM.

 

[Paddedjohn]

I agree with @rayc that the vehicle will not start when the "padlock" is showing.

Is there any previous history of the padlock symbol remaining lit?

Have the keys been dropped on hard surface so as damage the chip.

Do you have other keys on the same key ring, which could absorb the weak radio signals?

If you read the eLearn description of the code system kindly posted by rayc you wiil see that the key is rcognised by the body computer (BCM), which interchanges a secret code with the ecu. Also it is the BCM which illuminates the padlock symbol when the key is not recognised.

I observe that you have had the ecu tested, but you have not mentioned any checks on the BCM and receiving aerial, which is moulded into a black plastic ring surrounding the ignition switch, and is connected to the BCM.

Do you think I should get these checked next? Will engine not start at all while warning light is showing? Do I need to get it reset before trying to start it?

 

[bugsymike]

If your van is not a UK converted motorhome, you should have a key code card, which provides key details and a code for use in the energency start procedure. However if the vehivle is pre-owned these details may not have been handed over. The emergency start procedure is given in drivers manual,

I am concernad about the safety implications of ,this anti-start device seemingly operating while the the vehicle was travelling at 60mph.

I always understood that for safety reasons it must not activate the immobiliser whist driving.
The only instance I am aware of that happening was either with a stolen vehicle and the tracking company "switched it off" or for instance, I knew about a large combine harvester that the Finance Company "switched off remotely due to non payment of HP agreement to concentrate the farmers mind about paying at harvest time.
If none of this is relevant , there are companies that can disable your immobiliser although this would have insurance complications.

 

[rayc]

Will engine not start at all while warning light is showing? Do I need to get it reset before trying to start it?

Yes to both questions

 

[Paddedjohn]

Hi all and thanks for the helpful advice so far. Am I correct in saying that before I can proceed any further I need to get the code and remove the immobiliser light off the dash? If so where can I get the code as not with service book.

 

[2011 3L L4H2]

So I'm actually presently sitting in the local FIAT dealership and if you're not in possession of the original "code card" issued to the original purchaser a new one must be ordered from Fiat in ITALY. This "code card" is required to program a new replacement key. (£300). The diagnostics so far indicate a faulty key fob which is intermittently not generating the correct code to unlock the "Key Code 2" immobiliser system........ however they're also ordering a new ignition "key code aerial ring" (OE 0046742880) at £15 just in case this is the problem or both are the problem. The issue with being in New Zealand is that shipping from Italy is 2 bloody months!

 

[bugsymike]

So I'm actually presently sitting in the local FIAT dealership and if you're not in possession of the original "code card" issued to the original purchaser a new one must be ordered from Fiat in ITALY. This "code card" is required to program a new replacement key. (£300). The diagnostics so far indicate a faulty key fob which is intermittently not generating the correct code to unlock the "Key Code 2" immobiliser system........ however they're also ordering a new ignition "key code aerial ring" (OE 0046742880) at £15 just in case this is the problem or both are the problem. The issue with being in New Zealand is that shipping from Italy is 2 bloody months!

On my Iveco Daily when I lost the chip in the key the dealers wanted over £1000 to do the contact Italy bit and program new key etc. That was after I had towed the 3.5 tonne vehicle 30 miles to them! So in that instances I had the immobiliser deactivated for around £137 I recall, it was several years ago.
So apart from the delay yours sounds a better price.

 

[2011 3L L4H2]

On my Iveco Daily when I lost the chip in the key the dealers wanted over £1000 to do the contact Italy bit and program new key etc. That was after I had towed the 3.5 tonne vehicle 30 miles to them! So in that instances I had the immobiliser deactivated for around £137 I recall, it was several years ago.
So apart from the delay yours sounds a better price.

So. As I'm not one to trust dealers I called my local automotive locksmith and he said he could produce a chipped key for £100 (all up incl. travel) the same day! After chatting to him it turns out the "code card" was unnecessary as his equipment could extract the necessary code from the BCM via the OBD2 connection and the actual programmable chips were dirt cheap. (He showed me a bucket of them in his van). 15 minutes in my driveway.... voila! The only thing I don't get is remote door lock/unlock but for several hundred pounds I can live without that function on my spare key fob. Additionally, after getting a new key AND wiggling / contact cleaning the existing ignition aerial I've not yet had a reoccurring intermittent immobiliser fault (yet). Fingers crossed.

 

[2011 3L L4H2]

Hi all newby here after some help/advice. Ducato 2.3, 2009
I was driving my van at about 60mph and it cut out and wouldn’t restart. It turns over but won’t fire up. I have renewed the earth strap, checked to cut off in passenger footwell and had the ecu checked out too but still no joy. Looks like it’s a fuel problem, would the immobiliser be the cause of my problems? I have a warning light on the dash, amber key with padlock on it. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

A system of a dead key-fob chip is the vehicle may turn over but won't start.

 

[2011 3L L4H2]

A symptom of a dead key-fob chip is the vehicle may turn over but won't start.

 

[Paddedjohn]

Hi, I’ve had another mechanic look at it and he said their was no communication when he plugged his reader in. Codes found include both keys reading ok but he thinks the BCM isn’t allowing the ECU to power up and suggested I buy a kit off eBay which includes ecu, bcm and barrel and keys from a donor van. I’m hoping that if I fit these it may solve the problem

 

[bugsymike]

Hi, I’ve had another mechanic look at it and he said their was no communication when he plugged his reader in. Codes found include both keys reading ok but he thinks the BCM isn’t allowing the ECU to power up and suggested I buy a kit off eBay which includes ecu, bcm and barrel and keys from a donor van. I’m hoping that if I fit these it may solve the problem

That used to be a common "fix" in the past, but it may not be so effective on later vehicles due to all the other can bus stuff recognised by the BCM and ECU as a lot of them read off the Vin number stored on the ECU matching your vehicle etc.
Was your mechanic's tool just a code reader or something a bit more advanced.
Is there a Forum member near you, willing to help using Fiat Multiecuscan program and leads, as it may give more detail that someone on this site can recognise?

 

[Paddedjohn]

Mechanic is mobile and was using Snap-On reader rather than a cheap one. I’m new to this forum so don’t know if any other members live near me but I’m in Wirral if anyone can help
He seems think that once I change these items over the van should start but my Speedo will show donor vans mileage

 

[bugsymike]

Mechanic is mobile and was using Snap-On reader rather than a cheap one. I’m new to this forum so don’t know if any other members live near me but I’m in Wirral if anyone can help
He seems think that once I change these items over the van should start but my Speedo will show donor vans mileage

Generally I have found Snap On good, as long as recent model with all updates.
There is a Multiecuscan section on Forum and people wanting to help say what area etc.