I wanted to sound out some ideas that I have had rolling around in my head for a while. I like to research and think hard before starting a project, but I can't quite make my mind up which car to modify next.

I have a new Abarth Punto engine and plenty of gearboxes and bits and bobs waiting in the garage to go into something. I am trying to limit the expense of a project by choosing a car that is cheap to insure and I can use everyday, rather than doing a wild open-ended project like I had been thinking (FIAT 125 drift car). If it is brilliant, the new project will replace the Classic 100HP Panda potentially.

I bailed out of a fairly committed 2008 Panda 100HP project a couple of months ago. This was due to the cost for performance seeming like it wasn't worth it and I fell out of love with the modern car driver experience after I got sick of no driver involvement or feedback. That project car was insured for 10 times what it will cost me to insure the proposed car and would likely have been a lot slower.

Project goals

• (Very) fast road car with no compromises for the extra performance
• Cheap tax, insurance and running costs
• Standard looks inside and out to the extreme
• Perhaps just a touch of luxury like good stereo and low noise ride - I have a track Uno already

Vehicle requirements

• FIAT or Lancia!
• Pre-1997, preferably pre MOT "cat" test (Aug 1992)
• £1000 budget -hopefully only half that required!
• Less than 1 tonne in standard trim
• Ease of modifying suspension and brakes or availability of 3rd party stuff a plus
• Needs retro appeal for me
• 4+ seats
• Needs a parts path for me to be able to install engine/transmission without from-scratch fabrication of parts. So FWD for starters.

The contenders as I see it

• pre 91 Panda
• Mk1 Uno
• Lancia Prisma
• Cinquecento
• Regata
• Strada
• 127
• 128

The list is not exhaustive, I'm just not interested enough in other things like Mk1 Punto, etc. My current faves are highlighted. For a while I liked the idea of the exclusivity and weirdness of the Prisma or Regata. Regatas almost don't exist and there is only one Prisma that I know of that I have any chance of getting hold of. They are only just under 1 tonne and perhaps won't provide the thrill of the other smaller cars.

I worry that the 127 and 128 will be hard to make go actually fast around corners and a bit of a nightmare to modify in the suspension department, so they are almost a non-starter, although a 128 saloon does really appeal for fun factor.

I don't really like the Strada's looks, although I admit it is retro-tastic. Probably hard to get a decent one in budget too.

I know the Panda so well that I can map out the exact modifications in my head as I write this and the shape and everything else do really appeal to me strongly, but I can't escape the problem of the poor suspension (particularly the front). I have looked at modifying the Panda suspension, but it is all very drastic. There are no pickup points for wishbones, so the battle is almost lost straight away. The unusual hubs have a ball joint integrated, making it difficult to imagine an alternative hub being used either.

The Uno, however has 3rd party parts available, real hubs and wishbones and is simply a better actual car to live with (that is saying something coming from a Panda die-hard). All this and it barely weighs more than a Panda, which always baffles me. I already have an Uno though and it already has the same engine in! Is it just wrong to have two so similar cars?!

So that just leaves the Cinquecento. It is a really quite good contender with respect to what I have been talking about, but I have real concerns about fitting the front mounting turbo in. It doesn't have enough retro appeal to me and I think it is just too small for the everyday things I do.

Anyway, what are other people's thoughts?

Cinq would be my choice. But it does raise issues of actually putting all that power down. For the fit, you'll probably have to move the radiator over to the other side and certainly have to fabricate a new manifold for the exhaust simply to gain clearance.

There are a fair few turbo Cinqs putting out 140 or so bhp, but the conversion you have in mind offers more than that and absolute reliability. The 1.4 16v FIRE is almost a straight fit -- some minor fetling to the O/S engine mount, use of Cinq alternator etc.

Lots of threads by J333EVO, Kripit, foxyemz, Arc et al in the Cinq section. I'd be surprised if one of the Polish Cinquecentisti hadn't done it already!

There is an 850 Special at a garage not far from me, been sitting there for a while but I daresay there'd be enough space in the back of that for a Tjet if you fancied something a bit different?

X1/9. It has everything you want (except for 4 seats) and I dont believe that anyone has put a T-Jet into one before.

X1/9 not practical enough and also difficult to get a nice one in budget. This is supposed to be an everyday car remember. I owned an 850 and it has the same leaf sprung suspension issues of the 128. Not convinced about the performance of such a thing and also has practicality issues. Hatchback does seem a requirement the more I think about it.

I was thinking that a Tipo could be added to the list. At around 1 tonne it is not ideal for the traffic light GP, but has real handling potential and can be got super cheap.

I reckon there is a fair bit of fabrication required for a Cinq conversion, not least the exhaust as fingers99 says. Can you fit the bigger C510 gearbox in? I'm not convinced. I'm going to do a bit of reading on here.

I'm going to Mitcar, so will use the time for further reconnaissance. Hopefully there are some performance Cinqs there to examine.

I don't think things out here in the tech-talk wilderness are read very much, looking at the view figures. It's difficult when you aren't talking about specific models.

Anyhow, I am currently thinking of going Tipo! Heading off to the Tipo section for opinion and advice.

lewey said:

X1/9 not practical enough and also difficult to get a nice one in budget. This is supposed to be an everyday car remember. I owned an 850 and it has the same leaf sprung suspension issues of the 128. Not convinced about the performance of such a thing and also has practicality issues. Hatchback does seem a requirement the more I think about it.

I was thinking that a Tipo could be added to the list. At around 1 tonne it is not ideal for the traffic light GP, but has real handling potential and can be got super cheap.

I reckon there is a fair bit of fabrication required for a Cinq conversion, not least the exhaust as fingers99 says. Can you fit the bigger C510 gearbox in? I'm not convinced. I'm going to do a bit of reading on here.

I'm going to Mitcar, so will use the time for further reconnaissance. Hopefully there are some performance Cinqs there to examine.

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Even the 6 speed box will fit (generally requires lock stops, bwth)

fingers99 said:

Even the 6 speed box will fit (generally requires lock stops, bwth)

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Which 6 speed though- presume you mean the C514 (eg. Punto sporting)? Serious concerns over clutch options for that box and 180lb/ft torque before tuning, which is why I mentioned the C510 (eg. UT/PGT), which I have never seen in a Cinq.

That, and the 1.4 16v N/A box. The Abarth 500, Punto Abarth and Mito 155 have a 5 speed box, which -- I've never measured one -- is presumably no larger than the 1.4 16v 6 speeder.

The 1.4 16v box you mention is the C514. The other box on the turbo cars you mention is the C510 as fitted to the UT/PGT. They are larger in all dimensions, but particularly around the diff casing. Not saying it won't, was just saying I've never seen and would require mount fabrication at least.

A mere doddle compared to the problems of getting the power down!

But is the engine bay of a 500 really that much bigger than a Cinq?

Every other use I can think of for the engine is pretty much covered by the old Alfa range, bwth. -- my impending projects include a Cinq with an MR2 turbo engine (and MR2 suspension) in the back and a 500 esse esse powered Cinq.

Yikes. Clearly your fabrication skills are way beyond mine! Sounds like the 500 esseesse project is similar to what you are suggesting for my engine. I would watch that with interest. I think the engine bay of a 500 is a fair bit bigger, but they are both small! I have parts you may be interested in if you want to use a turbo FIRE in anything. I have brand new T-Jet gearbox bellhousings that will allow you to buy an easy-to-get-hold-of old C510 gearbox if you can't get hold of one second hand as they are rare. Also have bare turbo engine.

Wow! Shame I'm skint!

You might mention them in the Cento section, though, there are a few other nutters on there.

Just spotted this -- seems the Poles have already done it!

fingers99 said:

Just spotted this -- seems the Poles have already done it!

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Cheers for that. Some great links and pictures within the links on that thread. My Tipo idea has been fully researched and is a good one, but ultimately a lot of work. The Lancia Prisma I had my eye on came up for sale and I picked it up last night. McPherson struts all round is a good start to a nice handling and unusual car. Gearbox same as Uno, so already a goer for an Abarth 1.4, should I decide it is what I want to do.

Prisma, now thats cool! Keep us posted on the progress!

It's a nice car, but I think this might be a non-starter as well. Budget reasons including insurance are issues and I am not sure I like it's size. Small cars are so much more fun! Will settle on something soon, but it is looking like I will end up where I started and do a Mk1 Uno.