Artermis said:

If it's engine oil it'd have to be the crank seal, so have a look and see if the back of the flywheel is wet, if it's possible to see.

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Got the clutch off. Can't really see up behind the flywheel but while there is a bit of oily stuff hanging around the general area, nothing overly excessive i don't think. I've had a good feel around the back of the flywheel and the the area around it as far as i can and it seems to be dry, there's nothing at all on those bits of the back of the flywheel that i can reach. Pics below.
I also drained out what was left of the oil in the gearbox, so all told got about a litre out of it (so it'd lost about a litre in the space of 300 miles). Pic attached from which you can see its quite black looking (per previous post) for oil that's only done 300 miles......
So given all of that, I'm coming to the conclusion that its been a gearbox leak rather than thru the crank seal, and s'pose I'm looking for some comment from you guys on here who are more experienced that this is a reasonable conclusion (rather than wishful thinking on my part......).

dukebus said:

Does anyone know if the 1.6 (103HP/C154R) gearbox has these studs/nuts? I was looking on ePer and it doesnt mention them, but I can see at least one on the back of the bell housing, blocked by a bracket. I have air con too, which makes things even harder to spot.

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Don't really know about the 1.6, but here's a (very amateurish) template type thingy which i made (for want of a better word) to help me store and, when the time comes, correctly refit the bell housing bolts on my 1.4 16v. Don't laugh.
It's 5 bolts from the gbox side and and one nut from the engine side. Mine also has ac.
Dunno if that's any help to you or not.

tessiedog said:

Pic attached from which you can see its quite black looking (per previous post) for oil that's only done 300 miles......

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Thats very dirty looking for gearbox oil. I drained my 'box which hadnt been changed in years, and it was the color of good olive oil.

I'm stumped by this last nut. I cant get a spanner on it without rounding it, and the exhaust heat shield bracket is stopping rattle gun/ratchet... Exhaust manifold as to come off, or its time for Mr Angle Grinder.

tessiedog said:

Dunno if that's any help to you or not.

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Thanks, thats broadly similar to mine. Did you have much grief from that engine side nut?

Looks like ill have to take off the manifold now: thankfully i ordered a new set of gaskets just in case.

Did you have much grief from that engine side nut?

Looks like ill have to take off the manifold now: thankfully i ordered a new set of gaskets just in case.[/QUOTE]

Once i had located the bolts and the nut they were easy enough to loosen off- no doubt helped by the fact that they had all been off just a few weeks before when the clutch had been done the first time. Access to the nut was quite restricted (I went from below, reaching up, with the starter motor already moved aside). I have a deep socket which fitted it (can't remember the size offhand), but problem was the extensions i have were either too short or too long (always the way s'pose when u have a limited selection). In the end it was a spanner half turn at a time, but i was lucky in that it wasn't difficult to loosen off.
Cheers

Hi guys
Looking for comment from an experienced eye (again). Took the flywheel off to properly check for oil leak from the crankshaft seal. Pictures of the end of the block and of the flywheel as it came off - all looks (and feels) pretty dry to me, only oil was on the mating surface, but would value comments, please. Back of flywheel looks to be stained but is dry to the touch.

It certainly looks OK,I'd agree with you there....

what I would say though, is having gotten yourself this far (good effort btw, nicely done!!) for the £10-£15 the seal probably costs, it might be worth replacing for piece of mind anyway?

That gearbox oil looks horrendous too....

Thanks Artermis
Its good to get a second opinion from someone who knows, especially when that reflects my own thoughts. Tbh, still in two minds about the seal, I'm usually firmly in the "if it ain't broke....." camp, but do take the point about taking the opportunity while it presents. Will mull it over.
Cheers

That gear oil is nasty. They did put clean oil in there and not something out of the sump of a bus? I've never seen gear oil (and even not much engine oil) that colour. It'd be interesting to know what's actually in it..


Ralf S.

So I have duly mulled……….think I will go with changing the seal, as recommended, if only on the basis that in the course of this job I’ve done lots of things that I’ve never done before and learned a lot about the specifics of how suspension and transmission bits are put together, not to mention getting a sort of generalised feel for stuff, so might as well go the whole hog…………….. just goes against my natural grain a bit based on the ain’t broke philosophy. Plus, I’ve been at it a while, and am desperate to get on to the re-assembly part of the job. Can I just indulge my bolt paranoia and check that (i) when the new seal goes in, I can re-use the old bolts; (ii) I need to use new bolts on the flywheel; and (iii) for the clutch pressure plate I can re-use the old bolts. Also, should I be using Loctite on all of these, and if so, is the blue stuff ok, which I think is medium strength, or do I need the red variety (high strength)?

*

I know that I need to decontaminate the flywheel and the pressure plate of oil – is there a particular product that I should be using for this? And am I not able to similarly decontaminate the friction plate (bearing in mind that the one that was in had only done 300 miles)?

*

The other thing is that my laptop (which had the Fiat eLearn download on it), has come off worst in a recent altercation with a can of diet Coca Cola about occupancy rights to our kitchen table, and has taken the huff. Would someone be able to post here the torques for the bolts mentioned above, please?

*

Interesting comments on the condition of the oil that came out of the gearbox. I did also notice that the old clutch which came out the car, while well-worn on the friction plate, was dry ie no signs of oil contamination. Made me wonder.

Edit - just noticed that the flywheel bolts come with the thread lock already on them. And if looks blue.

Yes, I've never changed a seal either...

When I replaced my clutch it was February and snowing... and it had taken me three weekends to get that far with the car off the road, so I was half fed up with it and didn't bother. But there was and still is a persistent little drip of oil, never enough to spot the floor, coming out of the bell-housing. It could be transmission oil I guess... but it's thin.. so more likely 5W40 than 75W90... and I wish I'd done it now.

So, it's worth a punt... unless it all goes horribly wrong and leaks like a bastard afterwards... in which case, why didn't you leave it alone?

I nearly always re-use old bolts. Only cylinder head bolts may be "stretch" bolts, which deform significantly when you tighten them up. Regular bolts don't normally degrade after one or two tightenings. I'd only change a bolt if the thread is all horrible and rusted (if water can get into it, like on the suspension) or if the bolt head has started to corrode and the corners are starting to round... since I doubt the bolts in either of these scenarios will become easier to remove the next time.

If the bolts have a smear of the thread lock already on them, then they will grip once they're back where they came from. Sometimes I'll stick a bit of the Blue goo (Hylomar, or some gasket sealant) on the threads to help them stay locked. It's probably not as tough as pukka thread lock but it works (particularly on hose clips) so it's probably better than nothing when you can't find your thread-lock (why do they make the tubes so small? )

To de-contaminate the metal plates, use brake cleaner or contact cleaner (which smells like the same thing... I did research it extensively as a yoof... ) A few oily fingerprints isn't too much of a big deal, since everything burns off when the clutch is working anyway. As long as it's dry, not oily feeling then it'll be okay.


Ralf S.

tessiedog said:

Edit - just noticed that the flywheel bolts come with the thread lock already on them. And if looks blue.

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The blue compound on the flywheel bolts is a combined thread lock and oill sealant. The crankshaft is hollow, so the sealant stops oil leaking from the crankshaft and through the flywheel bolts.

I always use new flywheel bolts that are precoated with the thread lock/sealant compound.

The clutch cover bolts only need thread lock, so you can clean and reuse them with new thread lock.
.

Hi
Still not got my laptop working (with the eLearn download on it) or got a new one. Any chance someone would be able to post up the torque settings for the flywheel, clutch, bellhousing and the gearbox centre and side mount bolts? I know that the torque measure is critical for at least some of these (maybe not the bellhousing ones so much, but not sure?). Tbh, the basic mechanicing I've done until now, I've never really bothered too much beyond making sure things were nice and tight, but kind of looking forward to playing with the torque wrench........
Cheers

Anyone.....? Please....

I had a paper printout somewhere... but I think it's in my old mum's garage ... (I'm not due to visit for a week or two)..


Ralf S.

tessiedog said:

Any chance someone would be able to post up the torque settings for the flywheel, clutch, bellhousing and the gearbox centre and side mount bolts?

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According to eLEARN, the flywheel to crankshaft bolts for the 1.4 engine are M8 and should be torqued to 4.4 daNm. That bolt size and torque seems very small/low to me for flywheel bolts. I'd be inclined to seek confirmation from elsewhere.

What size are your flywheel bolts? My JTD flywheel bolts are M14 and torqued to 21.2 daNm.

The clutch to flywheel bolts are M8 for all engine versions, and torqued to 2.8 daNm.
.

Davren - thanks for that. I will check the size of the flywheel bolts later, but in the meantime it occurs to me that when I removed them they did come away fairly easily ie they were nowhere near as tight as I thought that they would be (I had envisaged a bit of a struggle, but a shortish handled wrench was enough for all of them). So maybe the 4.4 daNM could be right enough?

Ralf S. said:

I had a paper printout somewhere... but I think it's in my old mum's garage ... (I'm not due to visit for a week or two)..


Ralf S.

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That's interesting, I automatically had assumed that a hard copy of eLearn would have been a huge amount of paper. But if not, would like to get hold of one if that was at all possible without tooooo much hassle....?
Cheers

My "paper" came from the old style manual which I think I downloaded from this forum somwhere.

It's a RAR file so you need WinRAR or something that can "unpack" it.

I wanted some torques for the cylinder head or something but the section I printed included the crankcase and crank too, so it may be in there.

Meanwhile the file I unpacked was KIA when my computer died. I still have the RAR files but new PC has no WinRAR and I didn't need to refer to the manual, so I'd have to start again.


Ralf S.