Deckchair5 said:

Excellent! Nice clear photos too. Well done on both counts

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The photo's were taken using my mobile phone. Sony Ericsson C905 Cybershot. Produces nice clear 8 million pixel photos, great photo's from a phone IMO.

Replaced the bushes in my friends Stilo this morning. No change, everything went to plan just as before.

Replacing the rear bushes is not a difficult job if the interference fit is reduced to a more managable level.
Of course the original part was not intended to be a consumer replacable part, so the heavy fit was ok when being instaled in the factory.
As a consumer replacable part I see no reason for the fit to be so heavy so I reduced it and the job was a lot easier.
I think FIAT should take note and reduce the interference fit, or give us a good reason why it has to be so "Dock Yard".

I'm inclined to doubt that the bushes used in the factory are any different to those sold by retail Fiat parts departments. The only reason I can think of for the retail bushes being 'oversize' is that Fiat technical may have ascertained that the axle housings expand after the original bushes have been fitted and, therefore need an oversize replacement bush. This could be why they say the bushes should only be replaced once.

Davren said:

I'm inclined to doubt that the bushes used in the factory are any different to those sold by retail Fiat parts departments. The only reason I can think of for the retail bushes being 'oversize' is that Fiat technical may have ascertained that the axle housings expand after the original bushes have been fitted and, therefore need an oversize replacement bush. This could be why they say the bushes should only be replaced once.

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I can see the logic in only doing it once when the interference fit is so heavy and a press is needed to install them. The forces that the whole axle has to go through to install the bushes is tremendous and would surely weaken it if it the process was done multiple times.

But I see no reason why the bushes couldn't be replaced 4 even 5 times if the interference fit was reduced to a more suitable level. Much less force is needed to install them and obviously a lot less force is applied to the axle, perhaps extending its life.

There's no need for FIAT to have such a heavy fit on a consumer part if they were to produce model/age specific bushes of a managable interference level, instead of 1 size fits all. Maybe they just can't be bothered and are happy to keep charging owners a fortune to do the job for them.

I've now done 2 cars by reducing the interference fit to a suitable level, both are working perfectly. Time will tell I suppose. Maybe I'll start fitting them for £200.

Shadeyman said:

I can see the logic in only doing it once when the interference fit is so heavy and a press is needed to install them. The forces that the whole axle has to go through to install the bushes is tremendous and would surely weaken it if it the process was done multiple times.

But I see no reason why the bushes couldn't be replaced 4 even 5 times if the interference fit was reduced to a more suitable level. Much less force is needed to install them and obviously a lot less force is applied to the axle, perhaps extending its life.

There's no need for FIAT to have such a heavy fit on a consumer part if they were to produce model/age specific bushes of a managable interference level, instead of 1 size fits all. Maybe they just can't be bothered and are happy to keep charging owners a fortune to do the job for them.

I've now done 2 cars by reducing the interference fit to a suitable level, both are working perfectly. Time will tell I suppose. Maybe I'll start fitting them for £200.

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Stu,

My bold.
I used to work for a tier 1/2 automotive supplier mainly for Honda and Rover and we used to get requests for dimensional changes on components.
Some you can do easily for example move a hole in one direction or another.
The trouble with this type of part is the tooling to make the steel part would be expensive and really quite big.
The "cup" "steel part" is drawn from a flat blank i,m guessing so you would have to have tooling to cope with every increment of dimensional change.
the we move onto the moulding process to throw the rubber up the middle of it (that sounds rude lol) again to eliminate "flash" or to joe public squirty pints of raggy bits rubber all over the place these would also need a seperate mould to cope with each dimensional change.
It would cost hundereds of thousands in tooling alone then the downtime to keep changing over the tooling for a very low volume part.
The Stilo is now out of production so the need for these bushes in Fiats eyes is very low.

Cheers,

Shadeyman said:

I can see the logic in only doing it once when the interference fit is so heavy and a press is needed to install them. The forces that the whole axle has to go through to install the bushes is tremendous and would surely weaken it if it the process was done multiple times.

But I see no reason why the bushes couldn't be replaced 4 even 5 times if the interference fit was reduced to a more suitable level. Much less force is needed to install them and obviously a lot less force is applied to the axle, perhaps extending its life.

There's no need for FIAT to have such a heavy fit on a consumer part if they were to produce model/age specific bushes of a managable interference level, instead of 1 size fits all. Maybe they just can't be bothered and are happy to keep charging owners a fortune to do the job for them.

I've now done 2 cars by reducing the interference fit to a suitable level, both are working perfectly. Time will tell I suppose. Maybe I'll start fitting them for £200.

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Hello Shadeyman

What size 3 leg puller did you use?

crodan85 said:

Hello Shadeyman

What size 3 leg puller did you use?

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I used an old threaded 3 legged bearing puller by Facom.
http://www.facom-tools.co.ukhttp://www.facom.fr/com/interactive_catalog/catalogue/appli.htm
Max Reach was 230mm
The longer the reach the better.

If you can't get the bushes machined down to a more managable interference fit, Facom also sell Hydraulic Bearing pullers that are easily capable of producing the forces needed to push the bushes in.
For a much easier fit I recomend you get them machined(carefully) and remove about 0.15mm from the overal diameter of the bush.

Good Luck

Deckchair5 said:

HA! But, like Davren's, mine would have been of infinitely superior quality

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Collected the three pronged press piece from Fiat dealer today. As Decks says, mine is of "infinitely superior quality".

For anyone wanting to make this themselves, the dimentions are:

Disc diameter...... Mine 85mm. Fiat 100mm.
Disc thickness..... Mine 20mm. Fiat 10mm.
Pegs diameter..... Both 10mm.
Pegs height........ Both 22mm.
Pegs PCD........... Both 67mm.

The pegs are not equi-spaced around the PCD. i.e. they are not at 120° to each other. You would need to match the peg spacing to the cut-outs in the bush end plate.

For those wanting to take the easier route, this tool is part number 2000000400 and available from Fiat for £12.76 +VAT.
Why did I bother. :shrug:

All I need now is to get the enthusiasm to fit the bushes.
-

Shadeyman said:

I used an old threaded 3 legged bearing puller by Facom.
Max Reach was 230mm
The longer the reach the better.

If you can't get the bushes machined down to a more managable interference fit, Facom also sell Hydraulic Bearing pullers that are easily capable of producing the forces needed to push the bushes in.
For a much easier fit I recomend you get them machined(carefully) and remove about 0.15mm from the overal diameter of the bush.

Good Luck

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.

I have ordered the 3 pronged press piece and the axle support from Fiat today .

I intend on getting the bushed machined down and try inserting them using a 3 legged puller. If that does not go to plan I will see if I can hire a hydraulic press for the day.

Would you say the following puller would be suitable.
Ebay Item 180567625608 ( I am not allowed to post links yet)

Davren said:

Collected the three pronged press piece from Fiat dealer today. As Decks says, mine is of "infinitely superior quality".

For anyone wanting to make this themselves, the dimentions are:

Disc diameter...... Mine 85mm. Fiat 100mm.
Disc thickness..... Mine 20mm. Fiat 10mm.
Pegs diameter..... Both 10mm.
Pegs height........ Both 22mm.
Pegs PCD........... Both 67mm.

The pegs are not equi-spaced around the PCD. i.e. they are not at 120° to each other. You would need to match the peg spacing to the cut-outs in the bush end plate.

For those wanting to take the easier route, this tool is part number 2000000400 and available from Fiat for £12.76 +VAT.
Why did I bother. :shrug:

All I need now is to get the enthusiasm to fit the bushes.
-

Click to expand...

I have just paid 19.48 for the three pronged press piece

crodan85 said:

I have just paid 19.48 for the three pronged press piece

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It seems that many Fiat dealers inflate the list prices. My local dealer doesn't and charged the same price as in the current ePER i.e. £12.76 +VAT for this tool today.

Davren said:

It seems that many Fiat dealers inflate the list prices. My local dealer doesn't and charged the same price as in the current ePER i.e. £12.76 +VAT for this tool today.

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I would have to agree. I paid £12.75 for 2 front strut bolts and nuts from Stoneacre Wrexham .

There is no way I could make one for £19.00 and In the end it is going to work out cheaper than fiat charge to replace the bushes.

crodan85 said:

Thanks for the link.

I have ordered the 3 pronged press piece and the axle support from Fiat today .

I intend on getting the bushed machined down and try inserting them using a 3 legged puller. If that does not go to plan I will see if I can hire a hydraulic press for the day.

Would you say the following puller would be suitable.
Ebay Item 180567625608 ( I am not allowed to post links yet)

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The listing says 12 inch so it should be big enough, although the photo makes it look too small.

I found the job to be a lot easier than I expected after machining the bushes down. Just be carefull when machining them.

I live near Wolverhampton, if your not too far away I'll do what I can to help you.

Shadeyman said:

The listing says 12 inch so it should be big enough, although the photo makes it look too small.

I found the job to be a lot easier than I expected after machining the bushes down. Just be carefull when machining them.

I live near Wolverhampton, if your not too far away I'll do what I can to help you.

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I have ordered the puller off ebay and I hope it is 12" otherwise It will go back.

I have got a someone who may be able to machine the bushes for me. Machining the bushes is my biggest concern as I don't want to trash them. Do you think It would be possible to sand down the bushes.

Thank you for offering to help. Between myself and my brother we should be able to handle it but It probably end up taking two days to do

crodan85 said:

Do you think It would be possible to sand down the bushes.

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I had considered sanding the bushes down by bolting the bush onto a long bolt/threaded bar and putting it into a drill so I could spin the bush while sanding it.
I decided machining them would be far more accurate and enable me to keep a good interference fit. I'm sure reducing the interference fit too much would deffinately cause more problems than it solved.

My advice would be to very carefully machine 0.15mm off the diameter of each bush and use a threaded bearing puller to push the bushes in, its cheap and easy compared to other options.
If machining the bushes is not possible then use the same technique and a hydraulic bearing puller. They're able to produce forces over 10 tons and should easily push the unmachined bushes in. They're not cheap if you plan to buy a new one(about £140+) so hiring one may be a better option.

Let us know how you get on. A few photo's would be good too?

i think my bushes are shot or about to be, rear end getting more wishy-washey on motorways, and slight klunking over pitted terrain...a few questions if you have the time:

any definitive way to see if they are passed it bar dropping the axel and prying?
how much force is required to push home an unmachined bush?
what sort of place would i need to go to to get the bushes machined down?
was the seccond (non-pronged) sleel plate neccesarry, ie is it possible without?

thanks

Use a bar or long screwdriver between the outside of the bush housing and the mounting bracket (arrowed below) and also between the front of the housing and the bracket to check for play.

I took the axle off and used a cheap 6 ton press to remove and refit my bushes. The press was only £60 whereas the cheapest hydraulic 3 leg puller I could find was £120.

Didn't need to machine my bushes down, the press pushed them in easily without machining. I never liked that idea anyway, they were designed that size for a reason.

The flat press piece is just to press the old bushes out. The bushes are 67mm diameter so if you can find something else that's 66.5mm diameter, you wouldn't need the flat plate.
.

cool!

right been on the bay, to me this looks like it would do?:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Professional-20Pc-6-Way-10-Ton-Hydraulic-Puller-NEW-/220299856156?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item334ae5091c

i found cheap presses on ebay, but i have nowhere to put the subframe, so has to be done in situ.

to install bushes i understand i will need:
- Bushes (obv)
- Something to press them home (press, puller... etc)
- Three pronged piece from fiat

Anything missing?

EDIT:
with regards to flat press piece, if I cut the bush out, i wont be needing this will I?

The legs on the puller in your eBay link don't look long enough to me, Also, looking at the puller Shady used (post #117 above) you need something with very bent legs.

The center bolts are known to seize and may need hammering out, so I would be inclined to get new center bolts and nuts for the bushes.

If you cut the old bush out you won't need anything to press it out with.

the reach on the ebay set is max 250mm....shady had ones with 230mm i think?

I see what you mean by bent legs, didnt shady put a plate on the back of the arm to grip onto to push the bush home when it was about half way? (thats what i initially thought the flat press piece was for) thus giving an bigger external dia. meaning more to "grab".

I too dont like the idea of messing with the interferance, and i dont trust that a garage will "understand" this concern and not machine it down...