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Technical Skyroof Stuck open please help!

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Technical Skyroof Stuck open please help!

Austin09 said:
Also any advice about how to get these bowden cables since i should get two new ones while its all apart.
Click to expand...

As I've already mentioned several times in this thread, the cables are not available seperately. Good luck if you're going to try to find a substitute though.

It would appear from your last picture that the cable is crimped onto the runner during manufacture. The hexagon crimps are visable at each end of it.



Dave.
 
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Its unfortunately not crimped or i could pry it out, but its swaged so will need to be drilled out or something. I'll call round some companies monday morning and see what solutions they have. If not i'll just have to have a sunroof without electronic functionality.
 
Maybe you would call them crimped i'm not sure. I know that its been done by a swaging machine so i can't open up the metal and pull it out then recrimp it so to speak. There are 4 pits in the metal which need to be drilled out and i'll need to get a swaging machine to fit a new cable, that is if i can find a company that makes them!

I did notice that on ebay before and thought to myself if all else fails then i can use that, but i messaged the guy and it doesn't seem in brilliant condition. Getting two new cables would be preffered, but if not i'll get that and upload a guide on here for replacing the skyroof.

Thanks again by the way Dave you sure know a lot about these sunroofs!!
 
I certainly can't wait to get this working! I had the option of just putting the sunroof back in shut and water tight but i figured this extra effort and time (and money) will be worth it come the summer, and if i ever decide to sell my car!

I will be ringing up first thing Monday morning anywhere that does bowden cable to get a few quotes and then try and crimp the end onto my new cable. The other option if to put my old cable in a vice and straighten it out since they possibly can be used. I may do this first and try and turn the roof manually unless getting new cables and crimping it turns out to be easy and cheap.

I got an email from the seller of the one of ebay and guess what... he has only half dismantled it and sold the blind sperately! Now i don't know if he has put the mechanism out of sync or damaged the runner!

If anyone knows of any other cable manafactures can they let me know? And also for when i start putting it back together if anyone can suggest the best type of grease for these? I read somewhere there is a specific grease recommended for these.

More pictures to follow on Tuesday...
 
One other question i'm afraid.... Does anyone know if the front and back motor are interchangeable? They have different part numbers but look almost identical and do the same job except the back motor is the slave motor for the glass panels, and also works as the blind motor. My back motor didn't work when i removed it from the mechanism and did a test on it, although the motor itself is functioning the unit isn't working when power is supplied. I am not sure if they have different PCBs or chips in them.
 
Austin09 said:
I certainly can't wait to get this working! I had the option of just putting the sunroof back in shut and water tight but i figured this extra effort and time (and money) will be worth it come the summer, and if i ever decide to sell my car!

I will be ringing up first thing Monday morning anywhere that does bowden cable to get a few quotes and then try and crimp the end onto my new cable. The other option if to put my old cable in a vice and straighten it out since they possibly can be used. I may do this first and try and turn the roof manually unless getting new cables and crimping it turns out to be easy and cheap.

I got an email from the seller of the one of ebay and guess what... he has only half dismantled it and sold the blind sperately! Now i don't know if he has put the mechanism out of sync or damaged the runner!

If anyone knows of any other cable manafactures can they let me know? And also for when i start putting it back together if anyone can suggest the best type of grease for these? I read somewhere there is a specific grease recommended for these.

More pictures to follow on Tuesday...
Click to expand...

Hi Austin,

Fantastic effort on your skyroof repair!..really hope you fix it soon.Have just had problems with mine,but thank god it was only lubrication and a good clean and re-set.Sorry i cant help you on the motors.

As for grease,dont know about the correct stuff,but i use Unipart white spray grease.Its easy to precisely lubricate what you want,and has great resistance to water.I wandered along to my local "Quick Fit" and bribed one of the guys for a tin.

Best of Luck.Nick
 
It is the slave motor according to the Fiat manual, which would make sense if you look at the way the cable runs. The bowden cable controlling the glass does pass through the rear motor from what i can see but it also acts as the blind motor. I thought it was strange to see such complex circuitry inside the read motor unit but it must be to do with the silly anti crush mechanism and also controlling the position of the blind.

Anyone turning the roof manually needs to be extra careful therefore since that is a unusual load on the front cogs cos operating the glass panels. You can get some lube in the mechanism with it shut so if anyone elses is sticking i'd recommend that first before turning.

When i put the sunroof back together i'll be taking more photos so everyone can see how the motors are laid out and the system works.
 
Austin09 said:
I will be ringing up first thing Monday morning anywhere that does bowden cable to get a few quotes and then try and crimp the end onto my new cable. The other option if to put my old cable in a vice and straighten it out since they possibly can be used. I may do this first and try and turn the roof manually unless getting new cables and crimping it turns out to be easy and cheap.
Click to expand...

Looking at your photos, the cable is not Bowden cable. With the spiral round the outside, it looks more like windscreen wiper rack cable.

Dave.
 
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Thats really similar to it with the inside cable looking the same as well. Its a teleflex cable of some kind, i know Bowden is just a brand but that gives the best results when i search online. I see your point since most Bowden cables come with an outer pvc coating which i don't want. Should i be looking under another name? Some of the cables are a bit weak for this job and the same problem would occur with cheap cable sooner rather than later.

It should be the same as most throttle cables, windscreen wiper cables as well as many uses such as on boats and planes. There are plenty cable suppliers out there i've just not found what i want without having to go down the "made-to-order" route.

The specs of the cable are:

Outer cable width = 0.19 inch or 0.5cm
Inner cable width = 0.125 inch or 0.3cm

The ferrules on the end are are 0.18 inch and the turns per inch is about 10.

Any ideas where to get the kind of cable Dave?
Thanks
 
Austin09 said:
One other question i'm afraid.... Does anyone know if the front and back motor are interchangeable? They have different part numbers but look almost identical and do the same job except the back motor is the slave motor for the glass panels, and also works as the blind motor. My back motor didn't work when i removed it from the mechanism and did a test on it, although the motor itself is functioning the unit isn't working when power is supplied. I am not sure if they have different PCBs or chips in them.
Click to expand...

I believe the actual motors are the same but they have different control circuits inside them to keep the blind and blades in sync with each other. You can't, for example, have the blind closed and the blades open.

Argonought said:
So the rear motor IS used to operate the sky-roof after all!

I seem to have got that wrong then :eek:

Thanks for the correction (y)
Click to expand...

Austin09 said:
It is the slave motor according to the Fiat manual, which would make sense if you look at the way the cable runs. The bowden cable controlling the glass does pass through the rear motor from what i can see but it also acts as the blind motor.
Click to expand...

Although eLEARN refers to the motors as "master" and "slave" (BDSM?), it also frequently refers to the front motor as being for the blades and the rear motor for the blind. If the blades operating cable does pass through rear (slave) motor, as you suggest, then it would have to have 2 seperate drive mechanisms and, therefore, the motors wouldn't look the same.

I still believe the front motor only operates the blades and the rear motor, the blind, but unlike you, I've never dismantled one. The front and rear motors have seperate fuses (F46 and F45 respectively), perhaps I'll remove them one at a time to see what happens.

Dave.
 
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I'll have another look when i work on it next Dave i will check and confirm what each motor is used for. Thanks for the info though i think i'll have to source a rear motor for when i reassemble my sunroof.
 
Austin09 said:
Thats really similar to it with the inside cable looking the same as well. Its a teleflex cable of some kind, i know Bowden is just a brand but that gives the best results when i search online. I see your point since most Bowden cables come with an outer pvc coating which i don't want. Should i be looking under another name? Some of the cables are a bit weak for this job and the same problem would occur with cheap cable sooner rather than later.

It should be the same as most throttle cables, windscreen wiper cables as well as many uses such as on boats and planes. There are plenty cable suppliers out there i've just not found what i want without having to go down the "made-to-order" route.

The specs of the cable are:

Outer cable width = 0.19 inch or 0.5cm
Inner cable width = 0.125 inch or 0.3cm

The ferrules on the end are are 0.18 inch and the turns per inch is about 10.

Any ideas where to get the kind of cable Dave?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Sorry, I've no idea what this type of cable is called. I found the picture whilst searching for "wiper rack cable", but I'm suspect it must be used in other situations to convert rotary to linear movement.

I would imagine getting this made up on a one (two?) off basis would be quite expensive.

Dave.
 
Yeh apparently so i'll find up more when i ring up on monday. I was hoping to find some mail order cable now i have measurements but i've only found 2mm cable so far.

My research leads me to suggest Wiper Blades are controlled by Bowden or teleflex cable as are throttle bodies and steering etc so i get a few results when i search for that but still nothing. I'll call for prices on Monday but if its expensive or takes too long i'll consider the one on ebay since i don't want to risk the polethene over my roof much longer with this weather!!

Either that or i straighten out my old cable and give it a go. Ah well i like a challenge!!
And again thanks to everyone for their help so far i've never been on such a helpful forum!
 
I have also found matching cable on ebay, since the A Class uses the same Webasto roof (as does a Pontiac) for example:

Although this means i'd have to go through the effort of removing the end fitment which is different (arghhh) and crimp my end on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just an update for anyone with a similar problem. It isn't possible to get the cable from any cable manafacturers or Webasto or Fiat, but there are ways to modify other cars sunroof cables such as Merc and BMW which is the avenue i'm going down at the moment.

I've got a pair of new motors as well since i my rear was broken and i got a good deal on two new ones so i'm selling my front motor which is in excellent condition. I will try and fix the rear one when i get some free time and put that on the classifieds too.
 
Hi everyone got a new problem now :)
I reassembled the sunroof with the exception of the blind. The blind if preloaded with a spring so that it rolls back onto the roller when the motor pulls the front so that it doesn't gather.
But i can't seem to preload the spring. Has anyone had experience of putting the blind back on?

I'm also selling a rear motor in used but perfect working order on the classifieds if anyone is interested.
 
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