Technical Time for a new thread on JTD waterpump and cambelt failure?

[Multiwagon Man]

So my not-very-well-loved Multiwagon JTD was stooging along the M6, wife at the wheel, me following in a Citroen (long story) when the waterpump seized. Big cloud of smoke, instant overheating - she pulled over as soon as traffic permitted. The cambelt had not come off, but had slipped a few teeth. There was marginal contact between two valves and their piston, necessitating valve and guide replacement. Now it's back together, there's a boost problem, traced to a fault in the turbo, inevitably caused by the overheating. Still don't have a quote for the finished job.

The interesting points of this sad story are as follows:
I took the car in to report an intermittent drive-belty sort of squeak during February. I even mentioned "old-fashioned waterpump sort of sound". My local dealer's mechanics couldn't hear it, so did nothing.
The dealer suggested that 2000 miles in two months between that check (for which they charged me an hour's labour, by the way) and the fault occurring represented a lot of miles - like it was my fault for believing him when he told me there was nothing wrong!
The dealer also expressed surprise at the amount of E-mail traffic on JTD waterpumps, because "we've never had one go".
The re-build was delayed for a week because Fiat couldn't supply the melted back cover for the cambelt housing.
Fiat have suggested that 49000 miles on a September 2004 vehicle constitutes high mileage - they also quoted the dealer's opinion about the mileage since first detecting a noise (thanks, dealer). They have no intention of making any sort of goodwill gesture (although I haven't finished with them yet).

So my 9 year love affair with the Fiat is over. The largest family-owned motor dealership in North Staffordshire is unlikely to receive further business once I part with a fat cheque in return for my Multiwagon.

But if anyone has any tips on how to pursue this case with Fiat or the dealer, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[minimad99]

That's bad, shame another JTD has suffered this fate

 

[Argonought]

So my not-very-well-loved Multiwagon JTD was stooging along the M6, wife at the wheel, me following in a Citroen (long story) when the waterpump seized. Big cloud of smoke, instant overheating - she pulled over as soon as traffic permitted.

As I understand it, the most common issue is that the impeller comes adrift within the housing rather than the bearing seizing.

Were there no high temperatures warning signs or you saying the pump bearing just seized without warning ?

I now use a dose of pump lubricant, now and again, in mine as a precaution.

 

[Multiwagon Man]

The original squeak was intermittent, and hadn't been noticed for several weeks. There was more noise before we left Essex to head home, but the temperature remained OK until it went bang. So the waterpump went from fully functional but a bit noisy to totally seized in an instant.

Today's news is that "it isn't looking good". They are trying to fix the turbo rather than replace it. The service manager told my wife "if it's got that hot, you can never be sure about the condition of the engine - you might want to watch the oil consumption carefully when you get it back".

Or you might want to get rid, eh?

 

[JTD_Liam]

If you havn't already, you may wanna take a look at www.alfaowner.com as there are many tails of woe regarding waterpump & subsequent cambelt failure on diesel Alfas. Most of the cases involve the Multijet (16v) engines but there are a couple of JTD cases aswell.

May give you abit of guidance about pursuing it with Fiat.

As for 49,000 being high mileage on a Sept 2004 car.... what utter boll*cks - it's not even 12,000 miles a year for Christ sake. Id go mad if they pulled that stunt on me. My September 2004 Stilo JTD has done 55,600 and i consider that pretty low for it's age & fuel type.

Interestingly, mine has an occasional squeak, which i thought was coming from a pulley - im gonna have nightmares now

 

[Multiwagon Man]

The Multiwagon is back on the road. Only £1300. And that included a turbo and catalyser free of charge from a '53-plate scrapper, and a lot of goodwill from North Staffordshire's largest family-owned dealership in terms of discounted labour charges.

Sadly, the car has lost its mojo. Just not quite as nippy as it used to be - which makes me wonder if some slight bending of the rockers or other damage has been overlooked.

The message is clear - if your JTD makes any kind of cambelt/waterpump squeaky noise, don't hesitate, get both replaced immediately. Because your engine will be wrecked in the time it takes to pull over from the middle lane to the shoulder, once the waterpump has seized. Valves and pistons make contact as a result of cambelt distress, while the turbo and calalyser are destroyed by the overheating. All this on a 49000 mile, '54 plate, well-maintained vehicle.

Still pursuing this with Fiat, whose first response is to "refuse goodwill". Disappointing all round - I liked the car very much, would have kept it for many more years and would have bought Fiats in future. Oh well!

 

[john55]

, while the turbo and calalyser are destroyed by the overheating.

They will never be affected. Something else happened to cause turbo failure. There is no cooling on one and it is not possible to overheat a turbo. They only fail if you have low oil pressure or the oil seals go at high mileage. As for the cat? The don't do much on a Diesel and a diesel will happily pass an MOT test without one.

 

[T14086]

I fail to see how you expect a goodwill on a 5 year old car...am I missing something here?

 

[Citizen Smith]

I fail to see how you expect a goodwill on a 5 year old car...am I missing something here?

Clearly you underestimate the expectations of customers these days T
Had it been a VW they would probably have offered 50 - 100 % goodwill within 5 years at that mileage as it had not reached the time interval change.

 

[Argonought]

Had it been a VW they would probably have offered 50 - 100 % goodwill within 5 years at that mileage as it had not reached the time interval change.

Not in my experience they wouldn't

Mind you, they did contribute to having the car towed to the dealers when the bulkhead collapsed at about 3 years old

 

[JFL]

my 2005'05 JTD had 58k miles when it got part ex'd

one of my reasons for letting it go was that it was due for its cambelt and other bits soon (plus a few other bits needed doing).

 

[Steve148]

The Multiwagon is back on the road. Only £1300. And that included a turbo and catalyser free of charge from a '53-plate scrapper, and a lot of goodwill from North Staffordshire's largest family-owned dealership in terms of discounted labour charges.

That sounds pretty tough - I agree with other posters that there's no obvious reason why the turbo should've failed because the cambelt let go, but the bottom line is that you needed a new one anyway.

On a more positive note, you are clearly impressed with the dealer service so why not name them for us? We always hear the horror stories, so let's have credit for a dealership who go the extra mile.