Technical 2 garages, no resoultion

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Technical 2 garages, no resoultion

arc

this is where i stand
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My car has now spent a day at two different garages being probed and poked to try and trace the problem.

As it stands, the car is seriously lacking power. This happened on the motorway whilst driving flat out. The car felt low on power prior to this tho. It had just had a full tank of fuel courtsey of shell. The power loss was sudden, and the engine made an induction noise and jolted as it happened.

I limped back from manchester in it, and since then its had new plugs and HT leads, new fuel filter, the tank run down and refilled with optimax and then had fuel system cleaner added to that.

Both mechanics compression tested it, one said all cylinders were around 200. The other said 3 were at 175, and one down at 135. Its had all the sensors and electrics checked, all fine with no error codes or sensor irregularties. Its been emissions tested, they were crazy results with a clear presence of unburnt fuel in the exhaust.

Fuel economy has gone to pot, 170miles from the full tank - most of it motorway mileage at around 60mph. Its slowly loosing water, with no apparent leaks - but ive not had a proper look for any.

This is a continuation of another thread, just thought i'd try and collate all the information so far.

https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=14034 is the thread.

Neither mechanic has taken the head off (i wont let them.. i dont want to pay someone to do something i can do myself!), so cant confirm if the head gasket has gone, but doesnt sound too likely considering the compression test results. Tho i do get what rallycinq was saying.

At idle the exhaust is constanly going pip-pop-pip-pop-pip etc.

What would happen if the timing belt had slipped, would it run rough but still run - whats the easiest way i can check the timing.

Another theory is that the engine is coked up from when i had some bosch super4s in (the car was fine prior to these.. ) and that crap in the engine is now causing a valve to stick (hence the fuel cleaner stuff, is powerboost/carb cleaners worth trying too?). It passed the compressions test due to the engine turning so slowly, the valve(s) wasnt sticking but with higher rpm it starts sticking.

I think thats everything, bar the car still seems to have the same power it used to below around 3000rpm.

Its going to one last garage asap, and then im going to take the head off and have a look-see..
 
Arc,

Im having EXACTLY the same problem. I have changed the Coil Packs, plugs and Leads...to no avail...it still runs like a bag of spuds at tick over and has MASSIVE power loss between 2500 and 3500rpms.....its like hitting a brick wall...the dammn thing has NO power at all.

Come on guys.......HELP.....what is causing this problem????

SOMEONE HELP??????????????

Cheers

Andy
 
If one is down on compression, you would notice the perfomance decrease and it will problely require a new piston ring. Hmmm...... apart from that not sure really. Are you getting blue smoke from your exhaust??

You can do a compression test yourself, you can pick compression test kits up, not sure how much, alternatively if you know any friend who work at a garage get them to lend it to you.
 
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I am having the same problem, but only intermittently - its weird. It feels to me as though the fuel pump is knackered - as if suddenly there is a lack of fuel and Geoff nearly collapses.

It first happened abut 6 months ago, and then kept doin it for a while, then stopppd, and I nocied it again today. Im glad I aint ever been on a m/way when it happened though. I was on the way to an exam once - I had to sit at the side of the road revving the ******** of him.

That seemed to hep though - which lent more kudos to the idea of a bad fuel pump - cos doesnt increased rev's increase the pull on fuel? Or did i make that up?

I have been meaning to check under the car at the fuel filter to see if thats clogged - as I had a new head gasket in February, and they did a comlete overhaul (plugs/HT leads etc.) at the same time.

I seem to remember some people talking abot Lamda sensors? Now - i thought lamda was radioactive so I didnt quite get it. It also came across as being quite expensive to fix, sop think I blocked it out [:)]
 
Silly question but are the replacement plugs gapped correctly?

I bought the Super 4's and they made my car kangaroo around everywhere so removed them and replaced them with normal plugs and suffered no ill after effects.

This is stumping me, seen a similar problem on a Seat Ibiza and it didn't run but ran when the alternator was removed (yeah weird but true!) and it was then traced to a dodgy ecu but since you have had a diagnostic and with immobilisers you couldn't swop it then this is no use either.

Could only now suggest swopping TB's with someone.

HTH

Liam
 
The Wifes Chinq sporting is having a similar prob, it won't even start now!
I've booked it in at a garage for this Thursday, I will let you know how I get on.
The mechanic who I spoke to said "you're cat might be blocked" and went on further to say "to test to see if it is the cat take the lamder sensor out so it can breathe, but if it does start it will be noisey!"
Alas I tried it to no avail, anyway's I will let you know how I get on this Thursday fingers crossed.

Cheers
beermonster.
 
beermonster, i suspect the cat is blocked. Its one thing i'm going to test, i'm just going to unbolt it. I know it'll be noisey and not as powerful as it should be, but it should give a good indication of if its blocked.

liam, the problem arose whilst using the super4's. The first thing was done, was to get shut of them and fit new normal style plugs. This was done by mate at the first garage as part of the testing, so i'm assuming they're correctly gaped.

sam, its not an intermittent problem - its all the time. The engine when revved doesnt sound like it wants to die, just that it has no power.

dave, no not tried a new coilpack but i'm getting a spark on all 4 plugs - wouldnt a coil pack either work or not work?

andy, do you think it could be something like a stuck valve? have you tried connecting a vacuum gauge up to yours and see what its reading? My gauge used to read around 20inhg at idle, and its now nearer 15. Also when trying to maintain a throttle posistion the vacuum pressure fluctuates as if there is a valve sticking.
 
arc,

There should be a big bolt to the front of the cat which will allow exhaust out pre cat, there is no need to take it off completely.
I found that out this morning after I had taken the lamda out.

Cheers,
beermonster.
 
Had similar problems with my cinq a few months back. It just used to cut power while cruising along.

Anyhow after many hours scratching my head, it turned out to be the map
sensor. Trouble was that when this failed it gave numerous fault codes, hence the garage thinking they fixed it once the codes were cleared

Cheers
Rob
 
WOW...a lot of us are having the same or very similar problems. I have connected my ECU to a Fiat Diagnostic Rig but...as the Tech pointed out...unless your ECU warning light is coming on the ECU will not log and fault codes...Fiat therfore said it would need hours of manual diagnostic at £35 an hour...I swore and walked off!!

As to Coil Packs, my car had a completely carboned up plug on the cylinder nearest to the drivers side so I presumed the plug wasnt getting a good spark so...I bought a new coil pack and fitted it..the dammn thing is no beter!! An interesting statement was made by the guy at my local spares place though...he said "Cinquecento Coil Packs.....yeah..the one nearest the Exhaust manifold ALWAYS packs in!!!" So...tomorrow night I ill swap the other coil pack with the one I took off the other side and report my findings on here!!

My car has had new correctly gapped (0.7mm) NGK Std plugs, OEM leads and as I said...the 1 coil pack!!

If it is the head gasket gone....im not even going to bother taking the engine appart....at £200 for a 1242 low milage engine in gonna do the swap....it makes more sense!!

My only other thought as to the cause of this power loss is my K&N Induction kit....the Crankcase Breather and the vaccum pipe both get ported back into the airfilter casing and the Crankcase pipe especially seems to put a hell of a lot of oil into the throttle body!!

Im going to rig up my own induction setup and vent the Crankcase Breather and the vaccum hose into one piece of pipe with a nice mini K&N on the end under the car to see if that helps matters!!

Im pissed of with this loss of power spoiling an otherwise super fun little car!!

I WILL sort this problem though...no car beats me..not even a Fiat!!!

Laters fellas.....

Andy
 
Liam!!! Stand corrected!!

Its 1 and 4. Mine were wired with 1 coil serving plugs 1 and 2 and the other doing plugs 3 and 4, and it ran, but wouldnt stay idling.

Connected to coil 1 doing plug 1 and 4 and coil 2 doing plug 2 and 3 and it works fin!
 
Not at all mate, meant to say what you said but the conversation re coil packs was a while ago and my head was fuzzy so just typed it in! LOL

No worries:)

Liam
 
i'm tempted to bung a 1242 in there, but it would send my insurnace sky-rocketing. Didnt get round to testing without cat, i'l do it on thursday (day off!)
 
WOW....let me get this straight guys....looking at the engine...are you classing cylinder one as the cylinder nearest the drivers side?? If that is the case, the coil pack nearest the bulkhead fires cylinder 1 and 3 on my car, the other pack, nearest the exhaust manifold fires the other 2!!

Will someone in the know confirm...which coil pack should be firing which cylinder??? perhaps this is why my car is running like a bag of ****e???

HELP????

Cheers

Andy
 
My car's running pretty bad too, but a lot better than it has been. I took it to a garage and after paying £60 they said nothing was wrong with it :-(

The idle sounds a bit 'feeble', I'm not sure what's wrong, but it doesn't sound right. I've also got a misfire at idle and when I move the throttle cable. One mechanic said it was a misfire, but when I got an electronic diagnosis from a different garage they said it was normal :-o. I also seem to get pinking, but it's mainly at high speeds now. If I try accelerating from 60-70mph in 4th it pinks quite a bit, but in 5th it's not as bad.

The pinking has been a lot better since I got some Magneor KV85 leads, but it's still misfiring just as bad. I've replaced my spark plugs, and ignition coils, but I still can't solve the problem. The car's also been serviced recently and the oil's only a few weeks old.

I don't know whether this problem is related, but all this talk about the ignition coils etc. got me thinking.

btw, I've got an 899cc V reg Sei SX (38,000 miles), all standard apart from the Magnecor leads.
 
hmm.. and now my fuel gauge has gone nuts. constantly reading low, and when i floor it it falls off the bottom *shrug*

new timing belt and gasket set on order, its head is coming off!
 
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