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Old 12-04-2012   #1
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MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Hi All

I have a 98 MK1 60SX Punto, for the past few weeks it's been idleing very high, initially pulsing from between 1.5k to 2.0k before raising up to 3k and staying there until I give it some throttle, at which point it drops back to the pulsing before repeating the cycle.

It seems to happen at all temperatures, from starting cold to after a 100 mile run.

I've changed the map sensor and checked the hoses don't see any leaks, but it still does it.

Seen a few posts like this on the forums but very few people come back to say what has resolved it, just wondering if anyone has any advice what next to check and when the problem is solved I will be sure to come back to let everyone know.

Cheers

Dan
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Old 12-04-2012   #2
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

I have similar issue with my mk1 60sx but is not so drastic and is intermittent. When cold I get a bit of high idle about 1.2K but that is acceptable for me. However, when warm after a long drive when coming to a halt the idle will sometimes stay at around 1.2K. When is behaving the idle hovers around 0.85K so not sure why sometimes stays high. I have two suspicions:
1. idle stepper sticks a bit when hot. However, idle speeds is pretty constant with not match fluctuations so maybe this is not the problem.
2. Ecu trying to adapt to overfueling condition signaled by lamda sensor so it keeps the rpm high to lower emissions.
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Old 12-04-2012   #3
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

The following used to work on most of the earlier Fiat injection to reset the idle.
1. Run the car until hot and wait for the cooling fan to cut in once.
2. Disconnect the battery for a minimum if 10 minutes to reset the ECU.
3. Reconnect the battery.
4. Start the car and hold the revs at about 2000rpm until the cooling fans cuts in and out twice.
5. Now allow the engine to idle.

If there are no faulty sensors this should have now reset your base idle.
Hope this helps.
Mick
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Old 13-04-2012   #4
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Quote Originally Posted by MentalMick View Post
The following used to work on most of the earlier Fiat injection to reset the idle.
1. Run the car until hot and wait for the cooling fan to cut in once.
2. Disconnect the battery for a minimum if 10 minutes to reset the ECU.
3. Reconnect the battery.
4. Start the car and hold the revs at about 2000rpm until the cooling fans cuts in and out twice.
5. Now allow the engine to idle.

If there are no faulty sensors this should have now reset your base idle.
Hope this helps.
Mick
Can anyone else confirm this as it sound highly unbelievable. Idle rpm cannot be reset as is a fixed figure stored in the ECU,
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Old 13-04-2012   #5
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

I served my time on Fiats from 1991 onwards and this was the official repair/resetting procedure. In a lot of cases it worked but obviously not if there was a faulty sensor.
I'm not forcing you to try it or believe it, I'm just trying to help!!
Mick
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Old 14-04-2012   #6
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Thanks for the suggestions going to spend some time on this tomorrow and hopefully figure it out, I disconnected the battery for an hour and now from a cold start it idles at a steady 1.5k (still too high) but as soon as i touch throttle it wobbles back down to 1k then to 2k before settling again at 1.5k.

Will try some of the suggestions and let you know.
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Old 21-04-2012   #7
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Did you fix the issue? I have a similar problem on my 60sx.
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Old 21-04-2012   #8
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

The mk1 is obviously an oldy now. If you've ruled out the lamda sensor, it would be worth cleaning out the throttle body. Quite amazing how much gunk can build up there. Checking the stepper motor valve at the same time.
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Old 21-04-2012   #9
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Hi jimboy, it was running okay but I had an engine issue and had to swap the engine, with the new engine in place it's now idling iraticaly - it revs between 1000 and 1300 rpm. Seems otherwise to be ok - couple of minor leaks I need to fix
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Old 21-04-2012   #10
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Fixed, and it was a quick fix too, the throttle cable was too tight, where it was dismantled and reassembled the adjustment was out, loosened the cable off and it's happy at 800rpm
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Old 02-02-2013   #11
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Quote Originally Posted by Scott8105 View Post
Fixed, and it was a quick fix too, the throttle cable was too tight, where it was dismantled and reassembled the adjustment was out, loosened the cable off and it's happy at 800rpm
had a similar problem, in my case that rubber on the throttle wire got stuck and car was speeding without touching the gas pedal
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Old 02-02-2013   #12
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

The other fix is to remove the throttle body, use aerosol carb cleaner to clean the outside, then the inside.
Or use an ultrasonic cleaner.

Lots of potential causes, so no one cure is definitive.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #13
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Quote Originally Posted by neopickaze View Post
Hi All

I have a 98 MK1 60SX Punto, for the past few weeks it's been idleing very high, initially pulsing from between 1.5k to 2.0k before raising up to 3k and staying there until I give it some throttle, at which point it drops back to the pulsing before repeating the cycle.

It seems to happen at all temperatures, from starting cold to after a 100 mile run.

I've changed the map sensor and checked the hoses don't see any leaks, but it still does it.

Seen a few posts like this on the forums but very few people come back to say what has resolved it, just wondering if anyone has any advice what next to check and when the problem is solved I will be sure to come back to let everyone know.

Cheers

Dan
Sorry for the upload!, but I'm facing the same issue, and because of that my Punto is not passing the annual inspection (your MOT)

All started 3 year ago, car was stalling after revs going down. I changed the idle motor putting one from scrapyard. It went "better", not stalling but revving as described above. I changed At the begging it happened randomly but then got worse more often. In February I changed the lambda sensor and went a bit better, but still faulty. Now it's happening always at cold start and some times when warm (couldn't determine a reason) and I didn't pass the MOT because of high CO emissions. I guess both issues are related, the high idle and high CO emissions.

Last week I've changed the following, all of them brand new:
- throttle position sensor,
- intake air temperature sensor,
- idle motor,
- coolant temperature sensor,
- coolant,
- air filter, spark plugs,
- spark plugs cables,
- throttle body cleaned

After changing all, problem was still there. Then I decided to scan the car (I know, it should be first...) with IAWScan2 tool (thanks to the creators!!!) and there were two errors logged, Coil2 and Throttle position sensor, I don't know since when they were there... I cleared them and haven't appeared again. But the issue is still there.

I've gone today to MOT again, just to try my luck, and again declined. CO levels are high when revving. Idle was fine at around 1000 rpm, CO at idle 0,22%, but CO when revving 0,42% (it was 0,76% the first time) when it has to be below 0,30%. Lamba ratio looks good

before going to MOT I started the car and idle was between 1500 and 2000 rpm. When warm, coolant fan jumped, rev has gone down to 1000 rpm. I've driven with high revs all the time and driving feeling was good. As I said before, idle at MOT was fine, but not the CO emissions. But the funny thing is that when coming back to home more relaxed, rpm didn't went down when changing gears, staying at 200 rpm (at the end it's idle), but right after it disappeared and revs went down as normal and idle was ok when arrived.

I've read many places in this forum the potential cause can be a leak in the intake or exhaust. I couldn't find any leak in the intake, just a fissure in the exhaust manifold and last part of the exhaust (pictures attached). I would say the second is not affecting because it is after the lambda sensor. but what about the fissure in the exhaust manifold? do you that can affect? by exhausting more air or vacuuming more air?

IAWScan2 indicated 11,94v as battery voltage. 12,24v measured with multimeter, can this affect as well to the idle?

in addition, the throttle sensor indicates this, so variable, is it normal? The bigs up/down are when moved it manually (unable to post the full url, sorry)
youtu.be/Zkt_8IGN6hE




And here i am, still with many thing potentially causing this and not sure from where start. I would really appreciate any help on this. I love my Punto, 25 years at home, and this year I was planning to start regularity rallies with it, 25 years is the minimum in Spain, so i don't want send him to a scrapyard

cheers and sorry for the long post!
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #14
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Quote Originally Posted by majobusa View Post
Sorry for the upload!, but I'm facing the same issue, and because of that my Punto is not passing the annual inspection (your MOT)

All started 3 year ago, car was stalling after revs going down. I changed the idle motor putting one from scrapyard. It went "better", not stalling but revving as described above. I changed At the begging it happened randomly but then got worse more often. In February I changed the lambda sensor and went a bit better, but still faulty. Now it's happening always at cold start and some times when warm (couldn't determine a reason) and I didn't pass the MOT because of high CO emissions. I guess both issues are related, the high idle and high CO emissions.

Last week I've changed the following, all of them brand new:
- throttle position sensor,
- intake air temperature sensor,
- idle motor,
- coolant temperature sensor,
- coolant,
- air filter, spark plugs,
- spark plugs cables,
- throttle body cleaned

After changing all, problem was still there. Then I decided to scan the car (I know, it should be first...) with IAWScan2 tool (thanks to the creators!!!) and there were two errors logged, Coil2 and Throttle position sensor, I don't know since when they were there... I cleared them and haven't appeared again. But the issue is still there.

I've gone today to MOT again, just to try my luck, and again declined. CO levels are high when revving. Idle was fine at around 1000 rpm, CO at idle 0,22%, but CO when revving 0,42% (it was 0,76% the first time) when it has to be below 0,30%. Lamba ratio looks good

before going to MOT I started the car and idle was between 1500 and 2000 rpm. When warm, coolant fan jumped, rev has gone down to 1000 rpm. I've driven with high revs all the time and driving feeling was good. As I said before, idle at MOT was fine, but not the CO emissions. But the funny thing is that when coming back to home more relaxed, rpm didn't went down when changing gears, staying at 200 rpm (at the end it's idle), but right after it disappeared and revs went down as normal and idle was ok when arrived.

I've read many places in this forum the potential cause can be a leak in the intake or exhaust. I couldn't find any leak in the intake, just a fissure in the exhaust manifold and last part of the exhaust (pictures attached). I would say the second is not affecting because it is after the lambda sensor. but what about the fissure in the exhaust manifold? do you that can affect? by exhausting more air or vacuuming more air?

IAWScan2 indicated 11,94v as battery voltage. 12,24v measured with multimeter, can this affect as well to the idle?

in addition, the throttle sensor indicates this, so variable, is it normal? The bigs up/down are when moved it manually (unable to post the full url, sorry)
youtu.be/Zkt_8IGN6hE




And here i am, still with many thing potentially causing this and not sure from where start. I would really appreciate any help on this. I love my Punto, 25 years at home, and this year I was planning to start regularity rallies with it, 25 years is the minimum in Spain, so i don't want send him to a scrapyard

cheers and sorry for the long post!
Crack in exhaust manifold causing big problems.
Probably causing all your problems apart from very low battery voltage.

Get manifold fixed or replaced.

Post voltage reading taken with engine running.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #15
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Re: MK1 Punto Idle Revving / High Idle

Thanks jackwhoo for answering

I'm back with updates.

First good news. Battery seems to be ok. 12,45v right after cold start. 13,96v after running some minutes.

The bad, exhaust manifold has two fissures, yesterday I didn't see the second one. And there is a smoke leak, so I guess this is the reason of high revs ang high CO. I've bought a exhaust sealing paste, at least to clarify if idle stays at 1000rpm and try again the MOT. I'll keep you posted
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