Hi Everyone,

Helsinki Newbie here. Wondering about what's to come here in Finland when thermometer gets to -20C and I go to start my "new" '06 Fiat 1.2.
It's common in Finland to have engine block heaters installed for those "cold-as-a-witch's-teat" mornings; that's why my parking space has mains pole with timer for two hours daily. Also common to have an inside heater as well - beats scraping windscreens, and there's nothing like sitting down in an already-warm interior on a freezing AM!
With the assistance of my lovely wife, we searched Finnish-language forum and found there appears to be two options with Fiat:
1) engine block system (which warms up the engine oil, and the type that I had in my earlier car, which worked well), or
2) something that translates to "pipe heater" which seems to be installed somewhere on the coolant side - ?
I'm currently perplexed as to what to do.

Finnish forums relate a few horror stories regarding the "pipe heater", as the CPU apparently gets confused when the coolant's temp is high, leading it to think the engine's warm, lowering the RPM's causing them to stall.
A few people suggest that the car starts well WITHOUT any kind of a pre-warming system, and there seems to be little said about the block-warming type - the only type I ever heard of until ferreting the Finnish forums.
I WILL have an external mains lead added in any case, as I refuse to go without the interior heater (once you've had it, you can't live without it...)
BUT, any input/advice/suggestions about engine pre-warming systems would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers In Advance, :worship:

Helsinki Hippie said:

Finnish forums relate a few horror stories regarding the "pipe heater", as the CPU apparently gets confused when the coolant's temp is high, leading it to think the engine's warm, lowering the RPM's causing them to stall.

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I don't have first-hand experience but just thinking about this for a while, any kind of pre-warming will help - won't it? So let's say you have a 'pipe heater' that heats the coolant from -10 degrees (I'm assuming it doesn't quite get down to the air temperature!) to perhaps 20 degrees. Then you have the same kind of starting conditions that we have here (the engine coolant being at 20 degrees) so the engine will warm up at perhaps nearly the same rate as ours would. The coolant temperature sender is surely going to treat any reading below 'normal operating range' as a 'cold' situation. With 'normal' being 70-90 degrees, I don't see a pipe heater causing a problem if it was installed in, say, the bottom radiator hose, so that the system got heated by convection (through the water pump/block etc.)

Heating the engine oil sounds like a good idea, as that would enhance lubrication. With the bulk of the oil in the sump, I would guess that some kind of finned heater installed in the bottom of the sump would be effective, e.g. like the inlet manifold heater that the carburettor Tipo had. It would be cheaper to attach something to the outside of the sump (somehow - who would drill holes in their sump? ) - the oil behind would draw heat away from the thin metal.

You might not need any pre-heating device but I reckon it would be beneficial - even in our mild conditions there's a noticeable difference in economy and engine life if the engine is not warmed up. E.g. engines with stuck-open thermostats end up with a lot of petrol in the oil and give poor economy. So if you can shorten the warm-up time, so much the better.

Off-topic but a quick hint I read recently was to take a longer piece of windscreen washer tubing, replace the pipe leading to the washers, and wrap this longer piece around the radiator top hose - sounds like a good idea but then again the radiator stays cold for a while, so I think I'd try the heater hose instead.

This is just my thoughts (I don't live in a cold climate) so take them with a grain or two of anti-icing salt

-Alex

Thanks, Alex!

Just found out my wife's cousin is working for the Finnish Fiat Import Depot (where all the Fiats arrive in the country), so we queried for some reliable inside advice.

He says the Punto's block is not large enough for a "traditional" block heater (which sits in the lower engine block and warms the oil), hence the use of the heating element in the coolant system. Advises we only have one installed by our dealer, as apparently the angle of the element's installation is critical for the proper operation of the unit - hence the "horror stories" from those who have had a (cheaper) third-party install.

We'll have to enquire about the price (first assuming the "Pole Position": bending over and asking, "How much is this going to cost?")

We have to get this done, as: a) we DO get quite cold winters here; b) we're attempting to take good care of this, our first almost-new motor; and c) as I stated earlier, the driver's compartment mains socket for use of an inside heater is a MUST - once had, it cannot be done without! Scraping windscreens in -20C temperatures with high winds should be avoided at all costs! :nono:

Thanks for the Down-Under advice and tip! :worship:

Off-topic and personal: I was in New Zealand (1985 or so) while working as a backline tech for performance artist (and now Artist-In-Residence at NASA) Laurie Anderson. The record label rented us a schooner for a sailing party, and I have the fondest memories of the beauty of your country. We were standing on the deck, cruising across a beautiful harbour and singing the Drifter's "Under the Boardwalk" as a school of dolphins followed us playfully along! A-mazing land...

Cheers!

Helsinki Hippie said:

We'll have to enquire about the price (first assuming the "Pole Position": bending over and asking, "How much is this going to cost?")

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Called the dealer today: "Pole Position" price is a mere 300 Euros plus an additional 150 Euros for the driver's compartment mains plug! :nutter:
WTF!!!!!!! :tosser:

They really should be carrying weapons; then I would feel better about getting robbed... reminds me of Al Pacino talking to the cop in "Dog Day Afternoon":
AL: "Kiss me!"
Cop: "What?"
AL: "I said, kiss me!"
Cop: "What are you talking about?"
Al: "I like to be kissed when I'm getting F**KED!"

Think I'll just run a mains lead thru the door/window and forget the engine warmer.

AAAAAARGH!

LOL classic!

lol I whine about our winter and our temperatures which at the very worse get to -5 which is nothing compared to -20!.

Hope they do a good job for that sort of money . What are your dealers like over there?

ChrisUK said:

What are your dealers like over there?

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:Offtopic:

Helsinki Hippie said:

:Offtopic:

Finnish Fiat Dealers - one step above pond scum in the food chain.
​

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LOL - I just love your various sayings like this and the 'Pole Position' one Monty Mort (on this forum) is just as witty. I think he's dealt with this sort of thing for his Stilo (he used to drive an Uno and a Strada). Why is it that you guys seem to have a better command of English than the English

The FIAT importer in New Zealand also sets crazy prices for the Punto parts I've asked about. In England my Punto would be a cheap (and not very 'new') car, I understand worth about 1500 pounds. Over here, dealers still try to get 3000+ pounds (equivalent) but more importantly, the price of even its simple components is extortionate. One seat is about $800 (300 pounds), the plastic button for the gear lever is $93 (34 pounds), the price of a standard 1-year service (at the main FIAT dealer) was $700 (260 pounds), and so on it goes.

Important to remember that we earn about 1/3rd of the salary (on average) that is paid in England. The general cost of living is one-third and even our petrol is about half the price. So that makes the above prices even more ridiculous (that price of a service would pay my electricity bill for 10 months!)

Meanwhile over in Finland there must be an aftermarket (non-FIAT) alternative for the engine pre-heating? What have you done before on the (presumably older) cars that you've owned? Can the car not live inside in a nicely-heated garage like mine does for our cold (3-degrees) winter mornings?

-Alex

alexGS said:

LOL - I just love your various sayings like this and the 'Pole Position' one ..... Why is it that you guys seem to have a better command of English than the English

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Hi Alex,

You're giving me too much credit - I'm not a Finn (although I'm married to one) - I'm an American ex-pat living here for the past 14 years.
I pride myself to be a cunning linguist , and as a Yank, one of the highlights of my life was back in '04 when my feedback letter to the BBC technology show, "Click On Line" was picked out of tens of thousands for reading on-air. The show was about P-2-P file sharing and the music biz - "well chuffed", I was . I also worked my first big world tour as a backline tech for Supertramp's Roger Hodgson, and was one of only 4 Americans on the tour.
I must, however, give much credit to my British brethren for broadening my linguistical horizons.

"Pedantic circumlocution, my belligerent and prognathous friend, is the extremely endemic prerogative of anyone who is assiduously, sedulously and punctiliously conversant in the fecund demesne of lexiconophilia - in addition to being a more synergistically expedient mode of communication, at least to those with a more than inherently strabismic intellect" - Doc Savage comic book quote.

Who says reading comic books is a waste of time?