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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #1
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Engine driveshaft issue

Hi guys,

I'm really stumped here so need help.

My sons Punto Evo, 1.4, 77bhp has developed a massive problem that I can't figure out.

The clutch works fine, goes into gear no problem and even drives forward and backwards under its own power.

The problem I have is that the moment you put the clutch down the car stops dead as though you have stepped on the brakes.

My son said it started grinding at the end of the road 200 yards away and developed the stopping dead thing when he was parking up. (May be just a typical teenage defence.)

I've never come across anything like this before so need help please.

Thanks guys.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #2
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Quote Originally Posted by shiny8163 View Post
Hi guys,

I'm really stumped here so need help.

My sons Punto Evo, 1.4, 77bhp has developed a massive problem that I can't figure out.

The clutch works fine, goes into gear no problem and even drives forward and backwards under its own power.

The problem I have is that the moment you put the clutch down the car stops dead as though you have stepped on the brakes.

My son said it started grinding at the end of the road 200 yards away and developed the stopping dead thing when he was parking up. (May be just a typical teenage defence.)

I've never come across anything like this before so need help please.

Thanks guys.
Hi. Thats an odd one.

It is basically a Grande Punto.

Look in the GP section.. may well have happened in 10 years of UK use.

(Not sure what the failed gearbox bearing scenario can feel like once BAD..)

Charlie
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

When you say stop dead, I assume you mean at low speeds, not driving at 20 mph and the wheels lock up. Shuffling into a parking space and it’s like putting the brakes on kinda stop dead?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #4
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Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
When you say stop dead, I assume you mean at low speeds, not driving at 20 mph and the wheels lock up. Shuffling into a parking space and itís like putting the brakes on kinda stop dead?
Yes.. like a partially seized bearing I assume they mean..

Enough drag to replicate brakes..
But not enough drag to overcome @30bhp..
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #5
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies so far.

I do mean at slow speeds.

I have moved it forward in 1st gear but when I put the clutch down the car stopped moving as though the brakes were binding.

It was doing the same in reverse but now won't move forward at all.

I've had the n/s wheel off to check and the brakes are free.

I can turn the wheel backwards (clockwise) but when I try to turn the wheel towards the front it just jams up and won't turn.

It feels like the drive shaft is jamming up somewhere.

I may have to take it off and check it but if I can get some other ideas of what to try before I start stripping it out I'd be grateful.

As I've said I've never come up against anything like this before.

I have a day off tomorrow so am going to try to have a look at it in daylight.

Hopefully I may have missed something in the dark.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Good luck. Do let us know what you find.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Good luck. Do let us know what you find.
I will do.

Fingers crossed.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #8
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Had a look today in daylight and I'm still no further forward.

Jacked up both sides of the car and both wheels rotate in both directions with no noises or sticking anywhere.

I had my wife sit in the car and start her up so we could try it in gear.

It works fine in reverse but when we tried 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears the wheels refused to turn and the engine stalled.

Worried that it may now be gearbox related unless anyone has any idea of what else I could try.

Symptoms so far are;

Both wheels on the ground, the car won't move forward or reverse under engine power.

One side of the car jacked up, wheels will not turn at all by hand.

Both sides of the car jacked up, rotate one wheel by hand and the other turns in the opposite direction. (does the same on both sides)

Both sides of the car jacked up and using the gears, reverse is fine with both wheels turning but the wheels won't turn in a forward motion and the engine stalls.

Any ideas would be very welcome guys.

Thanks,
Shiny.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Sounds like the diff.

From my limited experience.

See the GUIDE in the cinq section from @whitz
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Sounds like the diff.

From my limited experience.

See the GUIDE in the cinq section from @whitz
I'll have a look at that and let you know how I get on.

Thanks.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #11
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

There are issues with a GP gearbox bearing..

But exactly what it effects I am unsure.

Plenty of info on the forum.

@Melanabb had hers rebuilt by a specialist
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #12
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Quote Originally Posted by shiny8163 View Post
I'll have a look at that and let you know how I get on.

Thanks.
Sounds like a broken pinion in the differential to me. Probably cheapest in the long run to just put a replacement gearboox from breaker in it. You could relace the diff and then find it's caused other damage.


Robert G8RPI.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #13
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
Sounds like a broken pinion in the differential to me. Probably cheapest in the long run to just put a replacement gearboox from breaker in it. You could relace the diff and then find it's caused other damage.


Robert G8RPI.
Just my luck.

Only bought the car about two months ago and already it's causing me grief.

This is the third Punto Grande we've had in the family and I've never had as much bother as I have with this one.

Will keep you updated with how I get on.

Thanks.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #14
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Hi shiny, very sorry to hear of your problems. From what you are describing it certainly sounds to be internal gearbox gremlins. It would be interesting to strip it and find out what's happened but at the end of the day your best option, as suggested by g8rpi, is probably going to be a good (with guarantee) used box. It seems likely there's been an internal failure of something. When this happens, because the whole box shares the same oil, it's common to find lots of horrid little shards of metal from whatever has failed, spread generously around all the other bearings, embedded in synchro rings, and blocking up oilways - I could go on.

It interests me however, to speculate on your observations so here's my ha'penny worth.

If you suspend the front end of most front wheel drive vehicles so the the wheels can be spun you will find that, with a stationary engine, a gear engaged and foot off the clutch you will get the effect you see - that is if you rotate one wheel clockwise the other will go anticlockwise. The reason for this is that with the engine stationary, clutch gripping and a gear engaged the gearbox is locked stationary. Therefore the pinion gear and crown wheel cannot turn. The bevel gears in the differential are perfectly free to turn though which produces the above result. Yours seems to do this? So it's likely, and I can only say likely, that the bevel gears are ok. But you say that you cannot turn a wheel if you jack up just one wheel with the other on the ground? If the gearbox is in neutral then turning just one wheel would cause the crown week to turn which would rotate the pinion gear and output shaft with its gears inside the box. You say it's solid when you try this. That's about the only positive thing I can say as I can imagine a few things such as - broken pinion as g8rpi suggests being just one. Anything which might stop the crown wheel from rotating from broken teeth (crown wheel/pinion) bits of gear tooth or broken bearing jammed in a gear? No! Stop! I think this is a bit pointless as the only way to really know is to strip the box and it's only worth doing that if you intend to rebuild and if you're going to rebuild you really need to recon the whole box as there may well be damage to other bearings etc which will only become apparent after you've reassembled it and got a few miles on it.

So sorry to sound so gloomy. Do keep us updated. It would be lovely to hear it was something cheap and simple - I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
Regards
Jock
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #15
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Re: Engine driveshaft issue

Can't get any more gloomy Jock so thanks for your input.

Any input is helpful and giving me more ideas of what to look at.

I'm not very confident at stripping down a gearbox and would probably rebuild wrong and end up with 1 forward gear and 5 reverse gears.

Reluctant to strip it down but I may change my mind if everything points at the gearbox for definite.

I like a challenge but at this time of year and with no garage it's not a great thought.

It may be a case of recovering it to a specialist.

I'll let you know if it gets that bad, and if it does, what they find inside.

I'm not giving in just yet.
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