Technical How bad was the clutch?

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Technical How bad was the clutch?

Wasgehabendas

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Hey guys,

Recently I changed the clutch on my Fiat Panda 1.1 2006 - left hand drive. It was very stiff, now it is soft as silk.

Could you tell me how bad is the old clutch and is it possible to repair it and sell later?
 

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how much is new clutch in Serbia ?

here in the UK they start at £40

Here starts at 62 pounds for a 'decent' clutch, usually LUK or Valeo.

Maybe it's not worth as others said but some good percentage of people (30%-50%) are buying repaired clutch or they repair the existing clutch they have.
 
Probably make sense in a high part cost low wage economy

UK tends to be the other way around labour cost of remaking a clutch plate would be as much as a new part

absolutely

£35 to have a new lining put on and you would still need a new release bearing


I just put the larger clutch for a 69hp read more expensive. Its OE approved and cost just over £40


pretty much every OE self-adjusting clutch (SAC) here in the UK that are sold at a reasonable price will be remanufactured as a way to get around the pattern that prevent them being copied although it doesn't apply to the panda
 
Probably make sense in a high part cost low wage economy

UK tends to be the other way around labour cost of remaking a clutch plate would be as much as a new part

Yes I agree with you. Here it would be around 15-35 pounds for remaking the whole clutch kit, depending on the work that should be done.

And new non-OEM clutch kits are often garbage so people feel safer to remake the existing clutch because they know what they are getting.
 
the wear on the realise bearings doesn't look right. Even on fairly High mileage there is normally only one line across the centre bearing. You have two

I have only just thrown one away from a 77k miles. I will see if I can dig it out of the dustbin.
 
the wear on the realise bearings doesn't look right. Even on fairly High mileage there is normally only one line across the centre bearing. You have two

I have only just thrown one away from a 77k miles. I will see if I can dig it out of the dustbin.

Mechanic told me that the release bearing was stuck into the clutch pressure plate. The next step would be breaking the pressure plate and possibly a big damage to other nearby components.
 
Mechanic told me that the release bearing was stuck into the clutch pressure plate. The next step would be breaking the pressure plate and possibly a big damage to other nearby components.

ah that makes sense. Looks like you were lucky and the clutch is well and truly beyond any repair
 
ah that makes sense. Looks like you were lucky and the clutch is well and truly beyond any repair

Yes, it shouldn't be repaired :D

Well, I drove the car with a stuck release bearing for more than 20k miles, who knows how many more before I bought it. He said that I could drive it longer depending on how much I am proficient with changing gears.

But that is never a clever idea.
 
the wear on the realise bearings doesn't look right. Even on fairly High mileage there is normally only one line across the centre bearing. You have two

I have only just thrown one away from a 77k miles. I will see if I can dig it out of the dustbin.

Wonder what the end of the fingers on the release fork looked like? One side looked nasty?
 
Wonder what the end of the fingers on the release fork looked like? One side looked nasty?

At first they said it is bent and replaced, but actually later mechanic told me that it isn't replaced. Probably it could be fixed? Not sure what they did actually.

What would be the symptoms and consequences of bent release fork?
 
What would be the symptoms and consequences of bent release fork?

Most likely the bend would have been introduced by the clutch being so heavy to operate so the bend would mean that the slave cylinder piston resting position would be further down the bore than it would be with an arm which was not bent. I would guess that with a new clutch this will have little effect but as the friction lining wears, depending on the amount of bend in the arm, problems with "freeing" may occur.

What I mean by this is that if you think about the diaphragm position with a new driven plate fitted - so new friction linings - the diaphragm will be pretty much flat when the cover assembly is tightened down to the flywheel. The release bearing, when at rest, is therefore going to be quite far down the gearbox guide tube (so further away from the gearbox if you like) which will in turn mean the release arm outside the bell housing will be pushing the slave cylinder piston well into the slave cylinder bore. As the friction lining wears the diaphragm very slowly assumes a more dished shape to compensate for the lining material which has worn away (one of the reasons why a worn clutch often feels heavier to operate). The resting position of the release bearing is, of course, dictated by the diaphragm shape - the more dished the diaphragm the nearer the gearbox it's resting position will be and the further down the bore of the slave cylinder will the slave piston resting position be.

So how will a bent (or well worn) release fork/arm affect this? Quite simply it means that for any given position of the diaphragm the slave piston will be further down the slave cylinder bore than the designer intended. If the wear/bend in the arm is slight it's unlikely to have any effect noticeable by the driver. If the wear/bend is extreme then the clutch may work reasonably well with a new friction plate fitted - it may feel a little "stiffer" due to the release arm leverage angle being suboptimal - but as the lining wears a position could be reached where the piston in the slave will reach the end of it's designed limit of travel. In this case it may hit a limiting stop and be unable to move any further or it may simply "pop" out of the end of the bore of the slave cylinder. The result of this is pretty obvious.

Just to complicate things further some clutch systems, because of the leverage system used and the positioning of the slave cylinder, push the slave piston further into the slave cylinder bore as the lining material wears away (think concentric cylinders in particular or earlier RWD setups which were pivoted on the oposite side to the slave cylinder - ie, slave then release bearing with the pivot on the other side of the arm.) but our release arms are pivoted between the slave and the release bearing so they let the piston come out more as the lining wears.

I hope that was useful? If that last bit confuses you just ignore it as it's not really relevant to our wee Fiats but I thought I'd throw it in just in case some knowledgeable person was thinking "Yes, but"
 
Most likely the bend would have been introduced by the clutch being so heavy to operate so the bend would mean that the slave cylinder piston resting position would be further down the bore than it would be with an arm which was not bent. I would guess that with a new clutch this will have little effect but as the friction lining wears, depending on the amount of bend in the arm, problems with "freeing" may occur.

What I mean by this is that if you think about the diaphragm position with a new driven plate fitted - so new friction linings - the diaphragm will be pretty much flat when the cover assembly is tightened down to the flywheel. The release bearing, when at rest, is therefore going to be quite far down the gearbox guide tube (so further away from the gearbox if you like) which will in turn mean the release arm outside the bell housing will be pushing the slave cylinder piston well into the slave cylinder bore. As the friction lining wears the diaphragm very slowly assumes a more dished shape to compensate for the lining material which has worn away (one of the reasons why a worn clutch often feels heavier to operate). The resting position of the release bearing is, of course, dictated by the diaphragm shape - the more dished the diaphragm the nearer the gearbox it's resting position will be and the further down the bore of the slave cylinder will the slave piston resting position be.

So how will a bent (or well worn) release fork/arm affect this? Quite simply it means that for any given position of the diaphragm the slave piston will be further down the slave cylinder bore than the designer intended. If the wear/bend in the arm is slight it's unlikely to have any effect noticeable by the driver. If the wear/bend is extreme then the clutch may work reasonably well with a new friction plate fitted - it may feel a little "stiffer" due to the release arm leverage angle being suboptimal - but as the lining wears a position could be reached where the piston in the slave will reach the end of it's designed limit of travel. In this case it may hit a limiting stop and be unable to move any further or it may simply "pop" out of the end of the bore of the slave cylinder. The result of this is pretty obvious.

Just to complicate things further some clutch systems, because of the leverage system used and the positioning of the slave cylinder, push the slave piston further into the slave cylinder bore as the lining material wears away (think concentric cylinders in particular or earlier RWD setups which were pivoted on the oposite side to the slave cylinder - ie, slave then release bearing with the pivot on the other side of the arm.) but our release arms are pivoted between the slave and the release bearing so they let the piston come out more as the lining wears.

I hope that was useful? If that last bit confuses you just ignore it as it's not really relevant to our wee Fiats but I thought I'd throw it in just in case some knowledgeable person was thinking "Yes, but"

Thanks for explaining me thoroughly. As far as I know I don't have a slave cylinder because clutch is operated by the clutch cable since it is left hand drive as I mentioned in my first post.

Clutch is soft now but hard shifting gears remain exactly same as before I changed the clutch kit. Do you think the clutch cable is stretched or maybe it is because of the fork?
 
Thanks for explaining me thoroughly. As far as I know I don't have a slave cylinder because clutch is operated by the clutch cable since it is left hand drive as I mentioned in my first post.

Clutch is soft now but hard shifting gears remain exactly same as before I changed the clutch kit. Do you think the clutch cable is stretched or maybe it is because of the fork?

Sorry man, how stupid of me. I tend to always relate to our right hand drive UK version of the car when, of course, there are many more left hand drive versions with the cable clutch. In fact I think the cable is probably a better solution to our hydraulic ones.

So, are you saying the pedal is now nice and easy (soft) to operate but it's difficult to actually shift the gear lever? If so then it's got to be either the clutch not freeing completely or maybe a problem with the shift cables. As you say the "hard shifting gears" remain exactly the same as before maybe it's something not specifically clutch related - like, for instance, cables? Try shifting with the engine not running but clutch depressed. If it's easy now then it's likely the clutch not freeing completely when the engine is running so you need to look at the whole release mechanism - especially the cable and it's end mounts (I've seen problems like this due to the outer cable restraints flexing, maybe due to a crack in the bulkhead etc or even a partially collapsed outer cable which is compressing when the pedal is pressed). If however, it is stiff with the engine not running i'd be looking more at things like the shifter cables and ball ends etc. Try popping the cables off the gearbox ball joints and working them manually. How does that feel?
 
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