Technical Clutch pedal interrmittently sticking to the floor

[fiatireland]

Hi All

Recently I brought my Fiat Panda for its annual NCT/MOT test. It drove to the test centre fine but when the test was being carried out the tester stopped the checks because the clutch pedal was sticking to the floor

Left in the car park with no clutcth, I pulled at the pedal and it sprung back up so I drove it home but it was a nightmare journey as many times I stopped the padal stuck to the floor. I left it with a local garage and he told me the cluctch pedal was bent and he straigthend it and all seemed to work

I booked a new MOT/NCT test and when I got there the exact same thing happened. The tester refuse to carry out the test because the clutch pedal was sticking to the floor. Again I just gently pulled the pedal and it released back.

So I drove back home with the pedal interrmittently jamming and brought it to the local garage - this time they told me the entire clutch needs to be replaced.

I know there are other reports and threads on here but I cannot see if there is a common solution for the Panda

Because the clutch seems to work ok when the clutch is not sticking, is it possible that just the master cylynder or even the slave cylinder is worn and that is all that needs to be exchanged? Not the actual full clutch kit I mean?

Is it possible lubricating the mechanism between pedal and cylynder etc could solve the problem. At the moment it is working fine but maybe when i drive for a longer the clutch sticks with heat

Any advice is gratefully received

Thank you everyone

 

[koalar]

Clutch slave cylinder

Don't do anything else, dose not need a master

Just confirm by peeling the rubber boot back and spaying some silicone grease in there





Done several it's never been anything else

 

[bugsymike]

Hi All

Recently I brought my Fiat Panda for its annual NCT/MOT test. It drove to the test centre fine but when the test was being carried out the tester stopped the checks because the clutch pedal was sticking to the floor

Left in the car park with no clutcth, I pulled at the pedal and it sprung back up so I drove it home but it was a nightmare journey as many times I stopped the padal stuck to the floor. I left it with a local garage and he told me the cluctch pedal was bent and he straigthend it and all seemed to work

I booked a new MOT/NCT test and when I got there the exact same thing happened. The tester refuse to carry out the test because the clutch pedal was sticking to the floor. Again I just gently pulled the pedal and it released back.

So I drove back home with the pedal interrmittently jamming and brought it to the local garage - this time they told me the entire clutch needs to be replaced.

I know there are other reports and threads on here but I cannot see if there is a common solution for the Panda

Because the clutch seems to work ok when the clutch is not sticking, is it possible that just the master cylynder or even the slave cylinder is worn and that is all that needs to be exchanged? Not the actual full clutch kit I mean?

Is it possible lubricating the mechanism between pedal and cylynder etc could solve the problem. At the moment it is working fine but maybe when i drive for a longer the clutch sticks with heat

Any advice is gratefully received

Thank you everyone

I have found plastic clutch master cylinder aggravate the issue.
I think most Mot Testers with a bit of common sense would have simple pulled up the pedal and carried on with the test.
I know I would have when I was foreman of a garage and also doing Tests.

 

[SPORTPACK50]

Clutch slave cylinder

Don't do anything else, dose not need a master

Just confirm by peeling the rubber boot back and spaying some silicone grease in there





Done several it's never been anything else

100% agree with this...had exactly the same problem on my 100hp and slave cylinder replacement cured it.

 

[fiatireland]

Thank you I suspected it might be the slave cylinder.

Was not keen on paying the 700 Euro quoted for a complete clutch as I think its maybe not needed - so as mentioned I think I will try the slave cylinder first.

About how long does the exchange take do you know?

Really appreciate yur responses - thank you

 

[koalar]

If you are not keeping the car just grease it it will probably last another year

It can be done in about 10 minutes if done like in the video

 

[koalar]

Rubber boot left peel back and put some silicone grease inside

You don't have to dismantle it as I have here, it's just to show what's inside

If I remember correctly this is from a 500 which suffer the same problem

It's this white nylon piston that goes dry

 

[fiatireland]

View attachment 461036

Rubber boot left peel back and put some silicone grease inside

You don't have to dismantle it as I have here, it's just to show what's inside

View attachment 461037

If I remember correctly this is from a 500 which suffer the same problem

It's this white nylon piston that goes dry

Thank you so much - That makes perfect sense and really appreciate the photos

 

[DTanner]

TLDR, I think you should replace the slave cylinder.

@fiatireland, I am not an expert but thought I would float my opinion here. I don’t think the approach in this thread errs sufficiently on the side of safety (from my perspective). Also as someone with no experience to make this claim I feel that it should be perfectly reasonable to fail a car in NCT/MOT with a sticky clutch pedal:

I think most Mot Testers with a bit of common sense would have simple pulled up the pedal and carried on with the test.

This surely has to be a safety consideration. Additionally, my concern extends to anyone else who may drive your car (either a spouse/partner, etc. or a new oblivious owner). Slipping into 5th on the motorway to find the pedal has stuck sounds really scary to me and you refer to this in your original post:

I pulled at the pedal and it sprung back up so I drove it home but it was a nightmare journey as many times I stopped the padal stuck to the floor

Given a successful diagnosis that it is the clutch slave cylinder I would recommend that you just replace it. It is not a big job and not overly expensive (for me it was £47 for the cylinder, £10 for brake fluid – but you may do better). It is helpful to have a bleeding kit to bleed the new slave cylinder.

Given a safety concern, a successful diagnosis and a straightforward process to replace it (the video @koalar linked to shows everything) the main downside is the cost, but even this is not crazy when balanced against the safety concern. Just my opinion.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I did a slave a couple of weeks ago on our 2014 1.2. Its an hours work going slowly. S4P did the slave for £27. I posted a guide which may help a little. Its a really simple job. Only now do I realise that the clutch has been horrid for months as the car is now so much nice and easier to drive.

 

[bugsymike]

@fiatireland, I am not an expert but thought I would float my opinion here. I don’t think the approach in this thread errs sufficiently on the side of safety (from my perspective). Also as someone with no experience to make this claim I feel that it should be perfectly reasonable to fail a car in NCT/MOT with a sticky clutch pedal:

When I was testing cars for MOT and running a garage as foreman some years ago there was nothing in the MOT Testers manual that could have reasonable been used to warranty a refusal to test or a failure regarding the clutch pedal.
However, I would have certainly mentioned it to the customer and advised them to have it repaired and also made a note of it on their invoice.
I would be more concerned about the integrity of the garage that was suggesting a new clutch assembly, given that the consensus of opinion is that the fault is external, so even after spending the money on a new clutch the fault would have still been there requiring even more money spent.
Those on Forum familiar with this models faults feel the slave is the likely cause and indeed something cheaply repaired, so well worth pursuing.
The reason I mentioned the master cylinder was due to recent experience on a daughters VW Golf with a similar problem where spraying around the pedal area considerably improved the issue which went away totally after replacing the clutch master cylinder, a fault I am familiar with due to plastic cylinders used on modern cars.

 

[koalar]

Was not keen on paying the 700 Euro quoted for a complete clutch as I think its maybe not needed - so as mentioned I think I will try the slave cylinder first.

Just out of curiosity as it's not need, but is €700 the going rate in Ireland

Looking back at my old posts I was with someone that was quoted £460 for a clutch in a picanto which is €550, which is an identical job but the parts are more expensive

 

[timmycm850]

Yes slave cylinder change and new fluid. It's common that the slave cylinder isn't bled during use from a number of owners/ years.

the reason it's probably happened at the mot station is just as simple as the mot tester has likely got longer legs and just pushed it down further than the regular driver.

Minor repair and relatively inexpensive

Tim

 

[The Panda Nut]

I would just add my 2017 car had the sticking pedal. It had the master cylinder changed by the dealer. The slave would have needed the gearbox out I think as the TA has a concentric slave. The master cylinder was changed in 30 mins and it never did this again. The problem was failure of the internal return spring that is meant to bring the pedal up. You may possible need one, the other or both cylinders. Having done the pair in our 169 3 days after major surgery, I can testify its not taxing to do. Internal return springs... another brilliant idea.

 

[rmjbn1]

Happened to me once in traffic in Dublin on a hot day.

I did as koalar suggested, a bit of grease on the rod of the slave under the rubber boot.

It's been fine for a couple of years since.

So this would probably get you through NCT, then if confirmed as the cause, replace at your leisure.

A few on here have stripped, cleaned and reassembled the slave cylinder as detailed above. They're quite simple things.

 

[koalar]

Happened to me once in traffic in Dublin on a hot day.

I did as koalar suggested, a bit of grease on the rod of the slave under the rubber boot.

It's been fine for a couple of years since.

So this would probably get you through NCT, then if confirmed as the cause, replace at your leisure.

A few on here have stripped, cleaned and reassembled the slave cylinder as detailed above. They're quite simple things.

Mid 2003 they were unobtainable

Lot of people had to resort to greasing them

So many were being changed

As soon as stock appeared, they were out of stock within minutes

So much so @RayovacWorkhorse was forced to fit one from the later model which although was a different part number, worked out fine

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

Mid 2003 they were unobtainable

Lot of people had to resort to greasing them

So many were being changed

As soon as stock appeared, they were out of stock within minutes

So much so @RayovacWorkhorse was forced to fit one from the later model which although was a different part number, worked out fine

Aye, TRW part number PJF173 I think it was, it's still working great however the clutch has bit the dust so I'm forced to drive my 29 year old Celica at the moment until that's done next month! Word of warning though, we tried this fix on my mates 100hp panda and the fitting that goes into the slave was badly corroded so it would not seat correctly! In this case the pipe would also need replacing.

 

[DaveMcT]

You can get cast body clutch master cylinders for about £60 search 500 and Ford Ka. Fiat want silly money for a prefilled pipe and QD connector.
Buyer beware, but this looks right

Clutch Master Cylinder fits FIAT 500 312 9 2010 on B&B 55225453 Quality New | eBay

FIAT 55225453. ABARTH 500 / 595 / 695 1.4 (312. AXF11, 312. AXF1A) Hatchback Petrol 08/2008 on FWD 16 180 132. FIAT 500 (312_) 0.9 (312AXG1A, 312. AXG11) Hatchback Petrol 07/2010 on FWD 8 86 63. AXY11, 312.

www.ebay.co.uk

When the clutch spring fails (usually due to excessive clutch wear) the pedal will go down with a bang. You'll have lots of rattling and no drive. Hopefully there's no consequential damage. When you fit the new clutch it's wise to replace the gearbox input oil seal and if its the small support bearing, replace that as well.

 

[koalar]

It gets overly complicated for @fiatireland

Just spray in some grease

If it improves

Either leave it as it is or change the slave, either way it's cheap and quick

10s of thousands are changed every year, it's a common failure point, 500 and KA as well

Almost certainly has nothing to do with the master, I have know them fail on the 500, but never with this fault

There's an outside chance of something else maybe one in a thousand, which is why you diagnose it first instead of wasting money on unessery parts

 

[fiatireland]

Thank you to everyone for replies

At the weekend I added some silicone grease and I cannot get it to stick anymore so it seems to confirm the like problem is with the slave.

I will order one shortly and fit it - it seems quite straightforward to do

I hope the garage might have been wrong to diagnose a full clutch needed and a "little" excessive at 700Eur too.

One last request for opinion - I rang another garage for pricing for a clutch and explained the symptoms - he stated that often the clutch being heavy will cause the slave cylinder failure and perhaps a new clutch is needed - any opinions? or was he just trying to get some business?

Thanks again