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Old 28-06-2014   #16
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

Quote Originally Posted by way3000 View Post
Ok to gather up on all the "get another car" answers.

There is a reason as to why I don't do that.

1) the tax for that would be the price of the car + 180% of the street sale value at a dealer (average price ....

UNLESS there is a model of the Fiat Panda 2003-2012 that came originalli fitted with a turbo and was not above 20% in power of my original 60hp engine (72hp) and I doubt that happened

Sorry for the long post though.
I'm sorry to say this but the sort of question you're asking suggests one of two things - or both.

1: You haven't done much research into your project - I know that the purpose of your original posting was to find out more information but your question about gearboxes, for instance, makes my point.

2: Despite the access to facilities that you mention, your questions lead me to doubt that you have the technical knowledge to carry out the extensive modification you'd be attempting. This kind of project has the tendency to drag on and on as a mass of detailed problems arise and it requires great tenacity and expertise to complete, especially to complete safely and competently.

The 100HP is very different mechanically from the other Pandas. The drive train is totally different - engine and all its ancillaries, gearbox, the rest of the transmission; brakes, springs and dampers; power steering; wheels.
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Old 28-06-2014   #17
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Quote Originally Posted by R1NGA View Post
It was all going so well too....! My ECU mapper expert managed to crack the Magneti Marelli IAW5NF unit and did a very thorough job on the final setup. I was back up to 38mpg and made 113bhp/103torx into the bargain. The world was good and very stealthy.

Then the Rotrex started to make more of a classic s/c whine, which was no big deal. In fact it sounded really rather good and there it stabilised for a couple of thousand miles. But then it started to make more noise and I assumed the culprit was the outrigger/tensioner bearing, as that's where my ears told me it was coming from (using the classic screwdriver handle in the ear trick). I was therefore happy to let it rumble for a while before I attempted to pull the tensioner apart.

But, on Christmas day, with the car loaded up with food and presents, we set off for the Outlaws and within a mile it was clear that things were becoming terminal. The noise got quite bad and then all of a sudden it disappeared completely - result I thought, that dodgy bearing must have found its track again! But no, with the lack of noise came the spectre of a lack of boost too. I assumed the belt had pulled off as a result of tensioner bearing failure, so limped home and got another car....

On Boxing Day (wasn't popular, I admit), I opened the bonnet to find that the belt was in fact still in place, the drive side of the Rotrex was being powered, but the compressor side was all floppy and going nowhere - drive failure inside the Rotrex. Arse.

Took it off and sent it off to TTS who were very good, but explained that they were not able to provide a warranty replacement as it was 3 years old nearly and had 20,000 miles on it. Whilst they accepted that it should not have failed, they were obliged to send it back to the US for Rotrex to take a view. I have no issues with TTS whatsoever and they remain one of my favourite engineering and tuning outfits.

Very little contact from Rotrex in the US other than no, we won't replace it. To be honest I didn't have the heart to fight it, nor the willingness to throw another 1500-1800 at it to get another unit built up and installed. I've done too much on that car already, so it's just a memory now unfortunately.

Bl00dy good fun whilse it lasted though
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Old 28-06-2014   #18
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
I'm sorry to say this but the sort of question you're asking suggests one of two things - or both.

1: You haven't done much research into your project - I know that the purpose of your original posting was to find out more information but your question about gearboxes, for instance, makes my point.

2: Despite the access to facilities that you mention, your questions lead me to doubt that you have the technical knowledge to carry out the extensive modification you'd be attempting. This kind of project has the tendency to drag on and on as a mass of detailed problems arise and it requires great tenacity and expertise to complete, especially to complete safely and competently.

The 100HP is very different mechanically from the other Pandas. The drive train is totally different - engine and all its ancillaries, gearbox, the rest of the transmission; brakes, springs and dampers; power steering; wheels.
1: I know the gearbox is different, which is why I wrote it like a rethorical question. What I don't know is the complete list as I keep asking for.

2: I've made engine swaps in countless BMW's and MB's but the panda is my first FWD car.

Don't think about the time, I can make it in a day or two if it's a fit. (meaning no custom exhaust, engine mounts, intake manifolds and such have to be made to make the fit.

I've been working with engines for the last 4 years now and all I need is the data on what parts I need for a complete fit.

for example, in the BMW world, you have tons of interchangeable parts, but the suspension from the cab and the sedan ain't the same at where it mounts.

A project takes tons of time and drags on forever if you never do your pre-work, as I am trying to do here.

you mention alot of things. I can easily figure out the engine/drivetrain is different. same as BMW 320 to 325 for example.

But again. Does the gearbox mount to a different piece of metal which I need to get to fasten it or does it fit fine on the original mounting place?

it seems people are not willing or able to answer this question on what parts are different on the 100hp one.

Beside the obvious.

things like is the fuel pump bigger/stronger in the 100hp so that I need that one too? does the wire looms connect or are they also different?

You mention wheels and power steering.
Ofc. the wheels have to fit the brakes, that's a no brainer and the power steering has nothing to do with the engine so I can leave that out too. It's an electrical system stand-alone.

I belive your point at saying I don't know my stuff dosen't apply, hopefully, and that now someone can safely supply me with the answer from my previous post.

What parts do I need to harvest from a 100hp panda to make my 1.2 a 100hp one. (not including stuff like A/C, but purely engine parts/suspension/brakes and so forth.) all I want is that so that I can get startet harvesting.

unless someone can supply me with this answer, I have to find a scrap one and start measuring, reading part#'s and trying, which makes it a looooooong time project.
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Old 28-06-2014   #19
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

I think the truth is, that nobody in the UK would 'need' to swap the engine over which is possibly why you are not getting the answers your after as nobodies done it before.
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Old 28-06-2014   #20
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

Quote Originally Posted by scout View Post
I think the truth is, that nobody in the UK would 'need' to swap the engine over which is possibly why you are not getting the answers your after as nobodies done it before.


In short you will need to reshell an entire 100hp's mechanical and running gear into your current Panda
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Old 28-06-2014   #21
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

You sound like you have lots of experience with modifying drivetrains to fit different cars so if i was you i would use this extensive knowledge to build a 'special' panda using a 100hp as a basis and then show us all how you did it.
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Old 28-06-2014   #22
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

The 1.4 that we talk of is a 1.4 8v from a grande punto that would give about 20hp extra but it would slot straight in with no ecu driveshaft changes etc. I'm not too sure on specific 100hp differences brakes will be different ecu will be different I haven't seen the driveshafts but I'd imagine they were the same. A punto 16v engine would be a lot easier to source but will be the 90-95bhp version. The fire (8v) and superfire(16v) engine and gearboxes have the same mounting points heck you could even keep your box as the bell housing is the same
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Last edited by The Black Box; 28-06-2014 at 22:51.
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Old 29-06-2014   #23
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Re: 1.2 ltr to 100hp conversion (MK3 2003-2012)

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Fraid so, and it's made me grumpy in truth. No more 6000rpm+ in top for me any more
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