Hi from a new member!

About a month or so back, I bought a '58 plate Panda 1.2 to replace my wife's aging Astra. At first, all was well, but then the engine management light came on. I took it out for a spin, and was aware of a slight misfire. A blast down the local dual carriageway seemed to cure it, but nonetheless, I returned it to the garage (under warranty) for a check.

They diagnosed a faulty coil pack and replaced it. The car ran fine for a couple of days, then the fault recurred.

This time they changed the plugs and HT leads.

The car ran fine for a couple of days, then the fault came back!

They then changed the ignition sensor (the pickup for timing information).

The car ran fine for a week this time, but now the fault has recurred yet again!

After the last visit to the garage, I told them that if I had to fetch it back again it would be to get my money back! However, the car is perfect for my wife except for these reliability issues. She uses it to get to work, and we really can't afford to have any more problems with it.

I'm beginning to suspect its the ECU (or whatever Fiat call them) as it seems to be reporting faulty fault codes - er, if you get my drift!

Any suggestions welcome, as I think the garage is floundering!

Cheers,

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

How is it reporting faulty fault codes? What are the fault codes its showing?

Why have they only replaced the one coil pack, I'd have got the other done as well, as it could be that at fault.

Sorry - should have been clearer - both coil packs have been replaced. The mechanic tells me that the error code indicated a faulty coil pack. Unfortunately, I'm on the brink of moving house, and my fault code reader is in storage, along with all my tools, so I can't double check.

hi, changing the leads and things as well as the coil packs ..

seems to me they are not too familiar with the FIRE engine and it's behavior,
had any major work done there before..??,

the 1.2 fire engine is a pretty tough unit,

Charlie

We've only had the car a few weeks. Its for my wife, as she's scared to drive either of my cars(!). She just wanted something small and cheap to run, and this seemed ideal. I've no previous experience with Fiats, though I do all my own servicing and repairs on my classic SAAB V4. Old cars are MUCH easier to work on!

As far as I can tell, the car has had no major work done on it, and seems to have been well looked after. Its clean and tidy. When the engine is running properly it is smooth and quiet, if not particularly powerful.

The garage is where I bought it from, and as its under their warranty, they have an obligation to fix it. I've had odd jobs done there in the past, and never had any complaints about their workmanship, but they were fairly straightforward things.

When faulty, it surges and misfires - sometimes quite badly, and my wife is now scared of driving it! Its the first car I've had to call the RAC out to in nearly 20 years!

According to the garage (not Fiat dealers) the fault code always indicates the coil packs, but these have been changed. This suggests to me that the ECU is giving wrong fault codes and must be faulty itself, but I have no experience of Fiat ECUs.

I am on the verge of asking for my money back, which would be a shame, as otherwise its a very nice little car.

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

Injectors Ok? Wiring to the Coils and injectors Ok?

gr J

Well, hopefully the garage checked the wiring when they changed the coils! One of my mates has a code reader, and I'm seeing him tomorrow. It does feel like ignition rather than fuel supply, but could be the injectors.

There's no obvious commonality with throttle opening. It can occur at any speed and any throttle opening - even at idle. When I took it out for a blast, most of the time it was just an occasional stumble of the engine. However, at one point when I gave it full throttle, it did feel just like it had run into a rev limiter. I changed up a gear and it went away. But it shouldn't have been limiting at such a low engine speed. Not something you want to happen while you are overtaking......!

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

let us know what error codes it's stored,
Charlie

Hmm! Interesting! My son came up on Sunday and just happened to have his code reader with him. Plugged it in and "Unable to communicate"!

So I took it over to my mate's place - he's a professional mechanic. Plugged in his and "Unable to communicate"!

Driving to and from my mate's, the car behaved perfectly, except for the warning light on the dash. Stopped off to pick up some plonk for dinner, and when I started the car up, the light had gone out. But now it had a serious bout of the hiccups again!!!

AARRGGHH!!

Its now back at the garage. The mechanic there has said that if he can't find what's wrong with it this time, he's taking it to a Fiat main dealers......

And now they want to fit *electric handbrakes* on cars? Have the manufacturers gone mad?

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

Sounds fishy to me. Might be worth uplugging the ECU connections (big red/black hinged levers that hold the harness onto the 2 ECU connectors - at least that's what they look like on a 2006 model) and making sure all is clean and sparkly in there. At the very least there might be a dirty pin or something that you may spot.

I had similar issues... Take a look at my previous post here: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/329422-engine-display-icon-amber-2.html?p=3315861 for where the fault is likely to be.

(How was I sure it wasn't the ignition? Each coil fires two spark plugs. IF a coil pack is faulty, disconnecting one (a bad one) will make little difference (leaving car running on two cylinders). Disconnecting the other (if its the one which was working) will stop the engine completely. Mine, it would still try and fire with either disconnected - one worse than the other since one cylinder had no fuel, but it was trying to run)

Thanks for the responses guys. The car is still at the garage - haven't heard anything back from them yet. I'll call in later today for an update.

Frankly, if they don't fix it this time, they can keep the car, and I'll have my money back! Its a shame, because its a well looked after little motor, and perfect for my wife. But we simply cannot afford the unreliability. We're about to move house and I don't want this recurring when we're 200 miles from the garage we bought it from!

I'll keep you informed of any updates!

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

pchristy said:

Frankly, if they don't fix it this time, they can keep the car, and I'll have my money back! Its a shame, because its a well looked after little motor, and perfect for my wife. But we simply cannot afford the unreliability. We're about to move house and I don't want this recurring when we're 200 miles from the garage we bought it from!
"

Click to expand...

perfectly sensible..!!

they ARE good reliable cars,
but there's no guarantee it's not had a mixed history before your ownership,
Charlie

Well, hopefully we've finally got to the bottom of it (touches wooden desktop!).

The garage have accidentally (?) left a piece of paper on the seat which appears to contain the fault codes they read, and their interpretations of the possible faults:

P0300 - random multiple cylinder(s) misfire detected - HT leads, coils, low compression or wiring.

P0304 - cylinder 4 misfire - engine mechanical fault, wiring, ignition/fuel system, injector, ECT/MAF sensor, ECM.

P0351 - Ignition coil A malfunction.

Bear in mind that the coils, HT leads, plugs and sensor have already been changed.

However, they reported that the engine was very wet (with water), and on investigating, found that all the drain holes for the air chamber between the bulkhead and the windscreen (fresh air intake for the cabin) were blocked!

What appears to have happened is that the chamber has filled up with water when it has rained, and eventually its overflowed, showering all the electrics under the bonnet with water!

This makes perfect sense, as its only since the weather has changed that its started acting up!

He's cleaned all the drain holes out, thoroughly dried the area, then sprayed WD-40 over all the nearby electrical cables.

The car is now running like a sewing machine again, with no warning light. Hopefully that's it fixed. But if it recurs, I will report back!

Hopefully my experience may help someone else with the same issue. Its not an obvious cause for the effect observed, and to me, indicates the problem with relying too much on computer diagnostics!

Many thanks to all for your helpful suggestions.

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

Sounds like hopefully that's all it was

Looks like I spoke too soon! After a few weeks of running OK, the misfire returned with a vengeance on Wednesday.

We'd taken the car to Watford to do some Xmas shopping. Having driven quite cheerfully around the M25, as we were going into Watford, it started to misfire again, and the engine light came on! Once parked up, I sprayed everything in sight with WD-40 despite the fact that it was bone-dry, and left it whilst we went shopping. On our return, driving back around the M25, the misfire was so bad at times that the engine seemed to cut out completely!

This was a bit unnerving, as we were doing 70 in the middle lane, and there was a queue of lorries all nose-to-tail in the nearside lane when it cut out! I was looking around trying to figure out how to get to the hard shoulder, when it just as suddenly picked up again! It continued to run erratically for the rest of the trip home.

The cut-out probably only lasted 3 or 4 seconds, but it seemed like eternity!

I took it straight back to the garage, with the engine light still glowing merrily. An hour or two later, the mechanic called to say he could find no fault, the light had gone out, and it was now running fine!

They've now taken it to the main Fiat dealers for an in-depth analysis. My gut feeling is that it has to be the ECU.

Aaarrrrggghhhh!!!

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

I've managed to get some feedback on what's been going on now. Apparently the main dealer also couldn't find anything wrong initially, but then twigged that there had been an issue with that particular engine/year combination which needed a software update to fix!

Apparently it was well known for issuing incorrect error codes and causing misfires! It should have been updated ages ago, but appears to have slipped through the net!

The ECU has now been re-programmed with the new software and appears to be behaving itself. Because of all the problems we've had with it, the garage are hanging on to it for a couple of days for further testing to make sure its OK before returning it to us.

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

pchristy said:

I've managed to get some feedback on what's been going on now. Apparently the main dealer also couldn't find anything wrong initially, but then twigged that there had been an issue with that particular engine/year combination which needed a software update to fix!

Apparently it was well known for issuing incorrect error codes and causing misfires! It should have been updated ages ago, but appears to have slipped through the net!

The ECU has now been re-programmed with the new software and appears to be behaving itself. Because of all the problems we've had with it, the garage are hanging on to it for a couple of days for further testing to make sure its OK before returning it to us.

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

Click to expand...

thanks for the update,
I hope they fixed it..!!,

personally - I use my breakdown cover in situations like that.. safer for me AND other roads users,

Charlie

Another update: Finally got the car back today after three days (plus the week-end!) at the main dealers!

In addition to re-programming the ECU, they also appear to have changed both coil packs (again!) as well as the HT leads (again!).

I can only assume that the garage we purchased the car from had used substitute parts which Fiat weren't impressed with!

Car is currently running sweetly - but I've said that before....!

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"

or they are clueless and changing parts at random,
did you have to pay..??