General Knackered suspension

David Bliss · Jun 22, 2011

Last week I helped a friend recover his broken-down Ford Maverick, driving his diesel Panda back. I was impressed by how the engine ran but the suspension was completely shot. The car has only done 80 000 miles, both shock absorbers and the anti-roll bar links were worn out and going by the vagueness of the steering other things were amiss as well. I have never liked the general design of the suspension, which seems to have been done to improve handling but has caused higher stresses in some components which results in early failure, I hope my Panda does not drive like this when it is approaching 80 000 mile, which I do not rate as a high mileage for a suspension system. I find this very disappointing.

306maxi · Jun 22, 2011

David Bliss said:
Last week I helped a friend recover his broken-down Ford Maverick, driving his diesel Panda back. I was impressed by how the engine ran but the suspension was completely shot. The car has only done 80 000 miles, both shock absorbers and the anti-roll bar links were worn out and going by the vagueness of the steering other things were amiss as well. I have never liked the general design of the suspension, which seems to have been done to improve handling but has caused higher stresses in some components which results in early failure, I hope my Panda does not drive like this when it is approaching 80 000 mile, which I do not rate as a high mileage for a suspension system. I find this very disappointing.

Not to be funny, but how many times have you posted this?

Yes there are some very poor bits of suspension componentry on the Panda/500. It doesn't cost much at all to put it right however and there is nothing inherent in the design that's wrong, just **** build quality from Fiat's suplier.

David Bliss · Jun 25, 2011

I can see where you are coming from but , with limited suspension travel components get overstressed, considerably reducing their lifetime. This is certainly true for vehicles which spend most of their lives on rural roads.

306maxi · Jun 25, 2011

David Bliss said:
I can see where you are coming from but , with limited suspension travel components get overstressed, considerably reducing their lifetime. This is certainly true for vehicles which spend most of their lives on rural roads.

It's nothing to do with limited travel. It's poor quality components like the rubber in the damper bushes and poor quality balljoints which are the issue.

Most Easterly Pandas · Jun 25, 2011

Equally how has the car been driven? What sort of use / loads has it done??

JD82 · Jun 26, 2011

Err wtf?

The Panda is a cheap car, it has cheap suspension parts. The Fiesta we have is the same, every 20k bushes need replacing etc.

At 80k on a small super mini what do you expect? My Panda has done 4k amost now, it has driven purely in harsh environments with lots of speed bumps and tight turns I would imagine a lot of Pandas are. This wares the suspension out far quicker than say a Vectra which spends all is life on the motorway.

At 80k I am not at all sure what you are complaining about, if my bushes last to 80k I would be praising FIAT.

306maxi · Jun 26, 2011

JD82 said:
Err wtf?

The Panda is a cheap car, it has cheap suspension parts. The Fiesta we have is the same, every 20k bushes need replacing etc.

At 80k on a small super mini what do you expect? My Panda has done 4k amost now, it has driven purely in harsh environments with lots of speed bumps and tight turns I would imagine a lot of Pandas are. This wares the suspension out far quicker than say a Vectra which spends all is life on the motorway.

At 80k I am not at all sure what you are complaining about, if my bushes last to 80k I would be praising FIAT.

tbh 80k is poor for suspension components.

midget4hire · Jun 26, 2011

306maxi said:
tbh 80k is poor for suspension components.

80k is still a lot of miles though, what age is the car? If suspension components last 6 years then id say they have lasted fairly well
As stated though, the panda does have pretty poor suspension components. I had a new set of rear shocks about 1 month after buying the car at 31k

306maxi · Jun 26, 2011

midget4hire said:
80k is still a lot of miles though, what age is the car? If suspension components last 6 years then id say they have lasted fairly well
As stated though, the panda does have pretty poor suspension components. I had a new set of rear shocks about 1 month after buying the car at 31k

But that's like saying that Bob Mugabe is a nice guy compared to Hitler. OUr Subaru has done well over 220k miles and still has its original shocks on it and one is only giving a slight misting of oil...... all of the bushes other than 1 set of liquid filled bushes was still fine.

trackdayqueen · Jun 26, 2011

If you look at used Pandas though, most tend to do pretty low mileage. Way below a 12K average I'd say.

Also they are cheap cars and cheap cars are built with cheap parts, so really it can be no surprise that parts do not last as long as they would say on another supermini costing twice as much (compare with a Yaris for example). At the end of the day you get what you pay for, simple as really.

306maxi · Jun 26, 2011

trackdayqueen said:
If you look at used Pandas though, most tend to do pretty low mileage. Way below a 12K average I'd say.

Also they are cheap cars and cheap cars are built with cheap parts, so really it can be no surprise that parts do not last as long as they would say on another supermini costing twice as much (compare with a Yaris for example). At the end of the day you get what you pay for, simple as really.

But it's still not acceptable. I'm sure comparably priced Korean stuff isn't as poor quality in terms of suspension parts.

trackdayqueen · Jun 26, 2011

Well quite, I do agree. I mean hearing someone say they think 6 years is acceptable for the life expectancy of the suspension, sounds bonkers to me. Should last at least twice that.

I'm sure it's just Fiat cost cutting at every opportunity and most likely under engineering parts so they can supply a car at a price, but know it's at least going to clear the warranty period before it falls apart like a clown car.

I've had two Fiats. Would I have another? No chance. Build quality tolerances are much better than they used to be, so it's kind of well put together, but the cheapness of the parts is not up to scratch IMO. This is exactly why I only ever bought new. Wouldn't have considered a Fiat without a warranty in all honesty.

JD82 · Jun 26, 2011

As I said it depends on how the car is driven, my car does 100+ miles a week in south Manchester, over pot holes, bumps etc etc.

I could do 1000 miles a week on the motorway, and it would be less when and tear on the suspension than the type of driving I do.

So you cannot really compare a 200k Suburu as its likely to have spent most of its life on the motoway or well surfaced A roads.

306maxi · Jun 26, 2011

trackdayqueen said:
Well quite, I do agree. I mean hearing someone say they think 6 years is acceptable for the life expectancy of the suspension, sounds bonkers to me. Should last at least twice that.

I'm sure it's just Fiat cost cutting at every opportunity and most likely under engineering parts so they can supply a car at a price, but know it's at least going to clear the warranty period before it falls apart like a clown car.

I've had two Fiats. Would I have another? No chance. Build quality tolerances are much better than they used to be, so it's kind of well put together, but the cheapness of the parts is not up to scratch IMO. This is exactly why I only ever bought new. Wouldn't have considered a Fiat without a warranty in all honesty.

I suspect some parts on your AE86 are probably original, unlike on Panda's in 20 something years!!!!!

My plan is to replace all the crap standard parts with as good quality parts as possible. You can buy Bilstein everything from tie rod ends, rack ends, droplinks to dampers and springs for the 500. I'm hoping they do some wishbones at some stage too. If it wasn't for me being out of work I'd have bought everything but the dampers and had them waiting on the shelf for when they fail (which will be soon).

306maxi · Jun 26, 2011

JD82 said:
So you cannot really compare a 200k Suburu as its likely to have spent most of its life on the motoway or well surfaced A roads.

Absolute bullcrap. The Subaru has spent the last 100k miles in North Wales on some fairly rubbish roads. The Subaru also has to cope with a helluva lot more weight and strain than a little Panda.

jrkitching · Jun 26, 2011

306maxi said:
But it's still not acceptable. I'm sure comparably priced Korean stuff isn't as poor quality in terms of suspension parts.

I'm with maxi & trackdayqueen on this one. IMHO both the Panda & 500 are built from some of the cheapest, poorest quality parts on the planet.

That doesn't necessarily mean the Panda isn't good value - it is after all one of the cheapest new cars for sale in the UK today. Fuel economy is excellent & it can provide seriously cheap motoring if you are able & willing to maintain it yourself.

But anyone contemplating a used example & entrusting it to the FIAT main dealer network for servicing & repair would perhaps be better advised to spend their money elsewhere.

JD82 · Jun 26, 2011

But aren't most superminis the same? I can't imagine the suspension on the C1 is any better, and by the time my Corsa had hit 80,000 miles all four springs had snapped and it needed two new rear shocks.

My dads Fiesta eats bushes every 18 months although is still on the original springs and shocks at 93,000 miles.

306maxi · Jun 26, 2011

JD82 said:
But aren't most superminis the same? I can't imagine the suspension on the C1 is any better, and by the time my Corsa had hit 80,000 miles all four springs had snapped and it needed two new rear shocks.

My dads Fiesta eats bushes every 18 months although is still on the original springs and shocks at 93,000 miles.

Please don't judge all cars based on what seems to be a pretty crappy Fester.

Most Easterly Pandas · Jun 26, 2011

JD82 said:
But aren't most superminis the same? I can't imagine the suspension on the C1 is any better, and by the time my Corsa had hit 80,000 miles all four springs had snapped and it needed two new rear shocks.

My dads Fiesta eats bushes every 18 months although is still on the original springs and shocks at 93,000 miles.

Mums 2001 Yaris, 136k on the clock and only had rear bushes done. Everything else is original.

jrkitching · Jun 26, 2011

Most Easterly Pandas said:
Mums 2001 Yaris, 136k on the clock and only had rear bushes done. Everything else is original.

My old Renault 5 did 217k with only the bottom balljoints needing replacement at 140k; the rest of the suspension & steering lasted the life of the car. My Ford Ka managed 101k with just one front wishbone; my Suzuki Van @ 117k needed nothing at all. Notice the pattern here?

I bought the Panda with my eyes wide open & accept it'll likely need more rectification & repair than something costing twice the price; but £6.5k will buy an awful lot of aftermarket parts, most of which will probably be better than the originals. And compared to the Ka, I'll save a further £4000 in petrol (at current prices) over the life of the car

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