Technical Options for upgrading power on a 1.2 mk3 Panda

tiagoadcosta · Oct 11, 2020

Hei,
So I've read around here about possible turbo conversions for the 1.2 or even adding a Supercharger.
What would other options be?
Would a 1.4T be an easy enough option to fit?
Or even the normally aspirated 1.4 from the Tipo?
Would any of these options be compatible with a stock but reprogrammed ECU or would a standalone ECU mandatory?
Basically: What would be the best bang for buck realistic option if one would like to make its own mk3 hot hatch?

Thanks!

varesecrazy · Oct 11, 2020

Bang for buck..

Buy a written off 100hp

169 in 1248cc guide is still a shopping car

Far more cost effective to buy a sound car that has better performance..
Especially if the insurance costs of stock vs modified are factored in

murphyv310 · Oct 11, 2020

They can be remapped a little. Not a big increase in power but much better driveability with no hesitations or flat spots.
Try a remap first, if that doesn't help I'd be inclined to go for a TA or a different vehicle.

The Pretender · Oct 11, 2020

tiagoadcosta said:
Hei,
So I've read around here about possible turbo conversions for the 1.2 or even adding a Supercharger.
What would other options be?
Would a 1.4T be an easy enough option to fit?
Or even the normally aspirated 1.4 from the Tipo?
Would any of these options be compatible with a stock but reprogrammed ECU or would a standalone ECU mandatory?
Basically: What would be the best bang for buck realistic option if one would like to make its own mk3 hot hatch?

Thanks!

I have all the High-End Parts to install a C15-60 Rotrex Supercharger to the 1246cc Fire VVT 69 hp engine.
At 10 Psi you will have around 123 hp. (with forged engine up to 180 hp)
You only need the Rotrex Supercharger itself and some small parts.

Only usable on a "NON" Airco car. (or removed Airco)

Send P.M. if interested.

Pictures of the 2 most important parts, Bracket and crank pulley.

tiagoadcosta · Oct 11, 2020

murphyv310 said:
They can be remapped a little. Not a big increase in power but much better driveability with no hesitations or flat spots.
Try a remap first, if that doesn't help I'd be inclined to go for a TA or a different vehicle.

That would probably be interesting to do but not quite hot hatch territory

tiagoadcosta · Oct 11, 2020

Thanks for the suggestions. I'd like to see discussed only mk3 options, because I have the car since new (2018 lounge) and I quote like it.
As for the supercharger it unfortunately means no aircon so it's out.
AC would have to be maintained.

chris3234 · Oct 11, 2020

The Pretender said:
I have all the High-End Parts to install a C15-60 Rotrex Supercharger to the 1246cc Fire VVT 69 hp engine.
At 10 Psi you will have around 123 hp. (with forged engine up to 180 hp)
You only need the Rotrex Supercharger itself and some small parts.
Only usable on a "NON" Airco car. (or removed Airco)

Send P.M. if interested.

Pictures of the 2 most important parts, Bracket and crank pulley.

Small parts?

You'd need a custom piggyback ECU for the car to run correctly or frankly at all with a supercharger let along to pass emissions tests

It's not just a matter of bolting one to the car and expecting it to run correctly on modern computer controlled cars

varesecrazy · Oct 11, 2020

tiagoadcosta said:
That would probably be interesting to do but not quite hot hatch territory

The 169 never made 'hot hatch' in reality

So with the 312 being a bigger car.. with a smaller engine

Time for a decision

New car.. or a second car

The Pretender · Oct 11, 2020

chris3234 said:
Small parts?

You'd need a custom piggyback ECU for the car to run correctly or frankly at all with a supercharger let along to pass emissions tests

It's not just a matter of bolting one to the car and expecting it to run correctly on modern computer controlled cars

Nope, it will just run on the original ECU with a remap with the correct parts/sensors installed.

chris3234 · Oct 11, 2020

The Pretender said:
Nope, it will just run on the original ECU with a remap with the correct parts/sensors installed.

Well is be rather surprised if it could it's some massive changes to the ECU for it to run right injection and spark timings etc does the stock engine even have a map sensor?

The Pretender · Oct 11, 2020

chris3234 said:
Well is be rather surprised if it could it's some massive changes to the ECU for it to run right injection and spark timings etc does the stock engine even have a map sensor?

Yes, it has a MAP sensor, change it for a 2Bar sensor and it can read boost pressure, otherwise it will "throw a hissy fit".

murphyv310 · Oct 12, 2020

Hi.
So how well would the cog box stand up with 180bhp. I've heard of failures with just 69bhp.
Its never as strong as the old rear engine Skoda transaxle that's good for 200bhp +

varesecrazy · Oct 12, 2020

murphyv310 said:
Hi.
So how well would the cog box stand up with 180bhp.
Its never as strong as the old rear engine Skoda transaxle that's good for 200bhp +

Is the skoda gearbox less work to fit than the compressor in a 312..??

R1NGA · Oct 12, 2020

Torque kills gearboxes, not power per se - I ran 110bhp/100torx through my 1.2 4x4 gearbox for 30,000 without issue. The torque with a Supercharger is not like that delivered by a turbo, so the components (including standard clutch I my case) were just fine.

murphyv310 · Oct 12, 2020

varesecrazy said:
Is the skoda gearbox less work to fit than the compressor in a 312..??

Did a few in my younger days. Mainly due to front layshsft bearing failure. Dealer negligence usually was the cause. Takes about 30 minutes to remove it, an hour tops to half the casing, replace the bearing. 45 minutes to refit and tighten bolts to torque and refill with oil.

murphyv310 · Oct 12, 2020

There's calculators online to convert BHP to torque.
I did a calculation earlier with this calculator.
Not sure if it's accurate but I'll do some more. See the screen shot

varesecrazy · Oct 12, 2020

So where does it get the
bore ..stroke..fuel ?

Looks a bit like a pocket calculator from here..

murphyv310 · Oct 13, 2020

varesecrazy said:
So where does it get the
bore ..stroke..fuel ?

Looks a bit like a pocket calculator from here..

You dont need to know bore stroke or fuel for that calculation or if its got a turbo.
It's a direct calculation given two parameters. Engine RPM and power output, it's only for that particular engine speed. At maximum BHP (Usually at high rpm) torque is lower than when the engine gives optmum torque at a lower speed, so if you do the calculations at say100lb/ft torque at 2500 rpm you only get 47.6BHP.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm

murphyv310 · Oct 13, 2020

The interesting thing in comparing the 1.2 to the twin air is the corresponding BHP levels at maximum torque of the engines.
The 1.2 produces 102nm @ 3000 rpm = 43bhp.
The 875 produces 145nm @ 2000 rpm = 40.7bhp.

varesecrazy · Oct 13, 2020

murphyv310 said:
The interesting thing in comparing the 1.2 to the twin air is the corresponding BHP levels at maximum torque of the engines.
The 1.2 produces 102nm @ 3000 rpm = 43bhp.
The 875 produces 145nm @ 2000 rpm = 40.7bhp.

Yes.. bore and stroke

Is that the NA or turbo TA..?

Technical Options for upgrading power on a 1.2 mk3 Panda

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