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Old 14-06-2017   #31
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Hi.
When I dropped the missus off at an old lady she cleans for this morning I managed to squeeze in 13 of petrol, doing a quick calculation I'm still getting 45mpg so not hugely out. What I did notice very quickly was another improvement, the hesitation is still just about noticeable but the jerking and the feeling like a slight miss appear to have gone. The only other thing is the second last time I filled up the filling station was out of 95 and I had no option so used 98 which I'm sure the last time I used it made the car run not so well. I'm off the Newcastle next week so by the return it'll only have 95 in the tank. Surely all the issues were not down to fuel..... makes me feel like an idiot
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Old 14-06-2017   #32
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Hi.
When I dropped the missus off at an old lady she cleans for this morning I managed to squeeze in 13 of petrol, doing a quick calculation I'm still getting 45mpg so not hugely out. What I did notice very quickly was another improvement, the hesitation is still just about noticeable but the jerking and the feeling like a slight miss appear to have gone. The only other thing is the second last time I filled up the filling station was out of 95 and I had no option so used 98 which I'm sure the last time I used it made the car run not so well. I'm off the Newcastle next week so by the return it'll only have 95 in the tank. Surely all the issues were not down to fuel..... makes me feel like an idiot
It's perfectly possible for a duff batch(es) of fuel could cause bad running, but I'd be surprised if good 98/99 makes it run like that. I always run cars on Shell-99 or BP Ultimate and have never had a problem. The only time I felt some increased rough running with a fuel was trying Aral-102 in Germany in a Renault Spider, as it clearly wasn't going BANG at quite the same point as my normal 99.

I'd say way more likely to have been duff fuel from one station or the other.
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Old 14-06-2017   #33
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by R1NGA View Post
It's perfectly possible for a duff batch(es) of fuel could cause bad running, but I'd be surprised if good 98/99 makes it run like that. I always run cars on Shell-99 or BP Ultimate and have never had a problem. The only time I felt some increased rough running with a fuel was trying Aral-102 in Germany in a Renault Spider, as it clearly wasn't going BANG at quite the same point as my normal 99.

I'd say way more likely to have been duff fuel from one station or the other.
Yes I tend to agree.
What gets me though is the errors and that the upstream Lambda probe initially was reporting a heater fault then the live data being wrong. Cleaning the sensor took away the heater issue and the live data improved greatly, this is why I'm a more than a bit confused. is it co-incidence or the effects of poor or contaminated fuel??
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Old 14-06-2017   #34
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Yes I tend to agree.
What gets me though is the errors and that the upstream Lambda probe initially was reporting a heater fault then the live data being wrong. Cleaning the sensor took away the heater issue and the live data improved greatly, this is why I'm a more than a bit confused. is it co-incidence or the effects of poor or contaminated fuel??
Poor fuel can certainly trash Lambda sensors. Remember back in 2009/10 when Tesco and/or Sainsburys went through a pile of bad fuel that left deposits and coatings on one particular type of O2 sensor and rendered them pretty much inoperative. Engine Lights on, bad running and in some cases, no running at all. A lot of the cars affected were French, as they all used a similar type of susceptible component. Cost the supermarkets a lot and the fix was simply to replace all the lambdas.....
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Old 14-06-2017   #35
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by R1NGA View Post
Poor fuel can certainly trash Lambda sensors. Remember back in 2009/10 when Tesco and/or Sainsburys went through a pile of bad fuel that left deposits and coatings on one particular type of O2 sensor and rendered them pretty much inoperative. Engine Lights on, bad running and in some cases, no running at all. A lot of the cars affected were French, as they all used a similar type of susceptible component. Cost the supermarkets a lot and the fix was simply to replace all the lambdas.....
It was Tesco . I have feeling it was bit earlier than 2009 but it's just a feeling.
Petrol had silicon added in error (the silicon was meant for batch of diesel to reduce foaming)

The contaminated fuel affected all makes of cars with O2 sensors.
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Old 20-06-2017   #36
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Another issue too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi.
Well I am still getting some running issues and today I decided to look at the MAF sensor. Low and behold it was covered in oil.
I cleaned it with carb cleaner and refitted it, all perfect for 10 minutes then it came back. Took the sensor out again and it was oily. I have cleaned out the orifice and refitted it. I wonder if the Bosch air filter could be the issue. The original Fiat filter has the usual paper filter material but has a fibrous material on the air input side. The Bosch filter has foam and I'm wondering if this is restrictive to air flow allowing the engine to pull air from the engine breather??
What is the foam actually for..... sound deadening?
Do these engines need an oil catch tank?
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Old 20-06-2017   #37
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

If air filter has foam over normal paper filter I think the foam is intended to trap "larger" particles and the paper "finer" particles.
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Old 20-06-2017   #38
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by jackwhoo View Post
If air filter has foam over normal paper filter I think the foam is intended to trap "larger" particles and the paper "finer" particles.
Yes that sounds right
Is there any reason the MAF would get oily? Excess back pressure, I certainly hope not or there will be a divorce!!
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Old 20-06-2017   #39
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

I think your car has a MAP sensor rather than a MAF sensor , please put me right of I'm wrong.
MAP sensors are very tolerant to contamination compare to MAF sensors.
using MES have a look at readings and see if they are as expected.

How is the lambda sensor strange reading situation?
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Old 20-06-2017   #40
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Hi Jack.
Well I have been a run after cleaning the MAF? MAP sensor, this time I had cleaned out the hole and as much as I could get to with a cotton bud. After a 25 minute run the car was faultless and the live data for the upstream O2 sensor was fine. I have even refitted the Denso iridiums and the car is flying. I personally think the car has never been worked hard enough by the previous owner, that and poor servicing has caused the issues. I'm going to investigate about fitting an oil catch tank, any excess oil reaching the inlet manifold will gradually get to the inlet valves and cause carbon build up on the backs of the inlet valves, this can be quite power robbing.
At least now I know what the problem has been.
Thanks for you're help.
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Old 20-06-2017   #41
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Oh I'm so pleased your car doing what it should and you enjoying it.
Oil catch tank won't go amiss .
Look forward to hearing from you regarding fitting oil catch tank.
Jack

MAF sensor measures actual air flow.
MAP measures manifold pressure the ECU then calculates air flow.
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Old 20-06-2017   #42
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by jackwhoo View Post
Oh I'm so pleased your car doing what it should and you enjoying it.
Oil catch tank won't go amiss .
Look forward to hearing from you regarding fitting oil catch tank.
Jack

MAF sensor measures actual air flow.
MAP measures manifold pressure the ECU then calculates air flow.
Got one on order Jack. Will start a new thread on it's fitting, most likely next week
Thanks again Jack for your support
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Old 22-06-2017   #43
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

I have watched some vids on youtube re the catch can idea..They seem to be only good for high power turbo engines.I think if you give your car a good run say twice a week the problem will stay away..
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Old 22-06-2017   #44
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

All closed loop engine breathers suffer this to a greater or lesser degree, simply as the breather is fed from the cam cover to the throttle side of the air filter. This then at negative air pressure and oil fumes will be fed past the throttle air flap, also the smaller bleed tube sucks at tick over.
The same issue was prevalent on my old Rover as it's engine breather worked the same way and it was a non turbo. The addition of a catch tank won't do any harm at all.
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Old 26-06-2017   #45
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Can't remember where I posted this before, but it is well known that O2 sensors HATE oil contaminants and will throw the ECU over the edge is they covered in cr4p. An oil catch tank is a great idea, but be careful to make sure it has sufficient capacity, not only for holding oil, but also in the size of the tubing feeding it and allowing the engine to 'vent'. And it might get messy if it's not setup correctly!
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