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Old 21-11-2014   #16
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Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by Trekking View Post
.....



I was concerned that this may be damaging the engine and therefore contacted the dealer who said it could be a million or one things and that the system would return to operational use once the battery had been charged to full power by the alternator. I did feel that I was being fobbed off but on reflection I had been doing short journeys with the start stop operating and then not functioning. The problem remained for 6 days but after doing a longer journey to allow the alternator to charge the battery the warning lights and warning message did switch off and the system became operative again.



So it does appear that this problem can occur when doing short journeys but will correct its self after a longer journey.



I feel that it would give owners a more positive peace of mind if the warning icons did not show permantly and that only the message displayed when the system was not operative due to the battery needing charging.



......



Hope this may help anyone else that is experiencing similar problems to me.

Thank you!

What does it show to us?

The system is not really intelligent, as it should, because I would expect that it should switch Off S&S until battery has been recharged, to avoid running in a situation, showing such warnung messages as described above.

Thats my conclusion after 3,5 years driving my 500 TA, I got 3 new batterys + one new batterysensor within waranty.

Finaly this does not solved my issue (restarts after 5 to 20 sec), because it seems to be related to my specific driving cycle (60km per day in the morning and in the evening, but start + stop cycles at the END of each trip only).

In case of start + stop cycles also at the beginning (after warming up) and during the trip of longer driving, the system works perfectly.
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Last edited by larslarsen; 21-11-2014 at 11:00.
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Old 21-11-2014   #17
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by Trekking View Post
So it does appear that this problem can occur when doing short journeys but will correct its self after a longer journey.
It won't necessarily correct itself after a longer journey, as it'll probably require (the battery) a deeper pulse charge, which the car cannot give it through its charging system.

Quote Originally Posted by larslarsen View Post
Thank you!

What does it show to us?

The system is not really intelligent, as it should, because I would expect that it should switch Off S&S until battery has been recharged, to avoid running in a situation
So what exactly is it doing then if its not already deactivating when it brings up the warning messages to tell you its not currently functioning? Is this not switching the system off until the battery has been recharged just like you think it should, but think it doesn't
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Old 21-11-2014   #18
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
It won't necessarily correct itself after a longer journey, as it'll probably require (the battery) a deeper pulse charge, which the car cannot give it through its charging system.







So what exactly is it doing then if its not already deactivating when it brings up the warning messages to tell you its not currently functioning? Is this not switching the system off until the battery has been recharged just like you think it should, but think it doesn't

It should avoid to switch off during idle only, without showing such critical warning.
It does in various situations described in the manual (engine cold, A/C required, ....).
Several users already reported, that S&S does not kick in, without any message, what is ok in that situation.
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Old 21-11-2014   #19
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by larslarsen View Post
It should avoid to switch off during idle only, without showing such critical warning.
But it does so currently to inform you of an abnormality in the system, and quite rightly so. I, and I suspect most others, want to know if its operating correctly or not.

If it done as you say then in a few years time when the battery is starting to fail due to old age and stops the SS system from working, without these messages you'd just think it was behaving normally, when in fact it isn't
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Old 21-11-2014   #20
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
But it does so currently to inform you of an abnormality in the system, and quite rightly so. I, and I suspect most others, want to know if its operating correctly or not.



If it done as you say then in a few years time when the battery is starting to fail due to old age and stops the SS system from working, without these messages you'd just think it was behaving normally, when in fact it isn't

The system has a parameter for battery age (remaining capacity) to be displayed in situations as you suggested, but this was not the case here.

In this case the battery was good after recharge.

In my opinion the system might be able to avoid situations the battery must be charged externally, because the strong intelligent alternator and the batterysensor could manage that, by simply avoyding the switch off during idle. Battery couldnt be discharged in case of no engine stop during idle, rare situation out of specification excluded.
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Old 22-01-2018   #21
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Thumbs up Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

I have a twin air 4x4 three years old and stop/start stopped working recently. I disconnected the quick release on the negative side of the battery and also what appears to be a connection on the negative side of the battery for the stop/start. This is a plastic plug with small tab you press to disconnect the sensor cable. Left both disconnected for 10 mins. Reconnected by plugging sensor connector in again followed by reconnecting the quick release connection. Drove car for around 5 miles to ensure engine warmed up and then stopped to check if system working. Bingo.....working again.
NB...because battery disconnected you need to reset clock and date etc etc
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Old 24-01-2018   #22
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Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Donít worry, itíll stop working again soon! After 3 years Iíd reckon your battery needs replacing if you want SS to work properly, all you did was reset the intelligent (oxymoron) battery sensor so itíll work out soon enough that the battery isent up to scratch
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Old 24-01-2018   #23
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

I often wonder about reliability on SS cars. Surely starters and batteries are under a lot of stress. Also ring gear wear has to be greater. If I was unfortunate to have a car with SS id disable it, a pound saved a month is nothing compared to batteries, starters and a new ring gear.
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Old 27-01-2018   #24
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
I often wonder about reliability on SS cars. Surely starters and batteries are under a lot of stress. Also ring gear wear has to be greater. If I was unfortunate to have a car with SS id disable it, a pound saved a month is nothing compared to batteries, starters and a new ring gear.
Starter motors are beefed up.

Have a look on here - how many with SS are posting about having to change their starter motors?
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Old 28-01-2018   #25
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
Starter motors are beefed up.

Have a look on here - how many with SS are posting about having to change their starter motors?
They are - I thought the batteries were too. I agree that certain components will experience heavier use. I don't have mine 'deployed' all the time - especially driving through tailbacks in the winter for example - for me it was less about saving fuel and more about not idling unnecessarily in towns and cities (and the effect that it has on air quality).
The aspect I was most worried about was the turbo - I'm quite careful to never let it deploy if I've been working the engine hard without a 'warm-down' period of driving.
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Old 28-01-2018   #26
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
I thought the batteries were too.
They are, but still only seem to last 3-4yrs, even when kept in optimal condition. IMO the extra cost of battery replacement alone is likely to exceed any fuel saving benefits for most drivers.

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
The aspect I was most worried about was the turbo - I'm quite careful to never let it deploy if I've been working the engine hard without a 'warm-down' period of driving.
That would worry me also. Not allowing the engine to shut down immediately after brisk driving would seem a wise precaution and it it unfortunate that the car does not do this automatically.
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Old 31-01-2018   #27
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

I have to admit, on Turbo engine's I'm also slightly wary for the same reasons you've both mentioned.
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Old 01-02-2018   #28
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
I have to admit, on Turbo engine's I'm also slightly wary for the same reasons you've both mentioned.
Same here, when stopping at a motorway/autoroute/autostrada station it concerns me that the engine stops immediately.
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Old 01-02-2018   #29
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
IMO the extra cost of battery replacement alone is likely to exceed any fuel saving benefits for most drivers.
I suspect that if you're a motor manufacturer with older-tech engines or newer-tech engines with questionable real-world economy, your focus would be on trying anything low in manufacturing spend to achieve better lab emission results.

The long-term implications and real-world gains would be a matter for the consumer to assess and evaluate.

Needless to say, I don't use S/S. I also don't free-wheel down hills with the engine off like my dad used to years ago though.
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Old 01-02-2018   #30
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Re: Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

Quote Originally Posted by AB100 View Post
I suspect that if you're a motor manufacturer with older-tech engines or newer-tech engines with questionable real-world economy, your focus would be on trying anything low in manufacturing spend to achieve better lab emission results.

The long-term implications and real-world gains would be a matter for the consumer to assess and evaluate.


Exactly.
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