Technical Panda 2012 twin air stop start problems

[dogsense]

I have a panda 2012 twin air turbo.The stop start has not worked for 10 months.I had a service at stoneacre Grimsby and asked them to sort out.
They reported that no fault was found and that the battery just needed charging. I bought a smart charger and charged the battery. What do you know the*s/s still did not work.I rang them and was told to take it back in not bad with a 80mile round trip. Took it back waited 2 hrs in there reception.The service guy came to me and said that the technician had checked it and found no fault. He had test driven it and it worked perfectly.I had a test drive with the technician he got it to work three times out of 8 attempts. he then waffled on that the stop start would not work if the windscreen wipers were turned on or the heater fan. He also said the the fiat stop start was inferior to other manufacturers. Can anyone tell me if 3 out of 8 stop start success rate is normal. By the way it has not worked since I collected it from the garage.
Has anyone else similar problems. thanks

 

[Dunturin]

Your battery is on the blink - stop and start should work 8 out of 8 times - that guy doesn't know what he is talking about

 

[Moultoneer]

Your battery is on the blink - stop and start should work 8 out of 8 times - that guy doesn't know what he is talking about

It also depends on one's pattern of use of the car- my Trekking TA's
Stop/Start rarely works as advertised because I only use my car about
once a week (but then do at least a 300 mile round trip )

The battery's deterioration during its days of non-use means the state
of charge is usually too low for the S/S to operate (though in warm
weather it recovers within a few miles of setting out...)

I have a dash-mount solar charger which I need to install- this ought to
improve things. I'll get the battery checked before the warranty expires!



Chris

 

[Goudrons]

Mine works ok.
At the very first set of traffic lights in the morning (about 200 yards after starting) it doesn't switch off, but after that it works fine for the rest of my 3 mile trip through rush hour London traffic, and that's a lot of stop/starting I can tell you, though I doubt it will continue very long as I know this trip isn't great for the battery. it's no where near long enough to replace half of what's being drawn out.

The system relies on battery condition, if it detects (the S/S sensor on the battery) there's not enough in the battery to enable a clean restart, it'll not stop the engine.

So a high battery draw will effect engine load (a high engine load will reduce the alternators "free" output to recharge the battery) and have the same effect, so there is a little truth in what you have been told, heated screen, air con, fan, wipers etc will all draw current out of the battery and effect the battery charging system.

There's a lot that could go wrong in the system and I believe the car can be hooked up and the S/S system checked for failures (to stop), but it won't really identify what's the cause, a little more work is needed, which probably wouldn't have happened at the dealers!

You need to think of batteries as every decreasing circles of stored power, use some power and the engine (to run the alternator) works harder to replace it, use some more while it's trying to replace the first lot and it needs to work longer and harder to replace more used power, and so on.
(Same goes for the air con, turn it on and you can often hear the engine turn up a notch to run the pump)
As this is happening, the condition of the acid and plates inside the battery decline until it can't quite keep up or store the power required.

A battery check is probably the first thing, it needs to be in tip top condition to store power, not just fully charged.
Quite a few places can and will test it's condition with a small handheld tool, often for free. (drop test)

Along with this, a test for parasitic drains, is something drawning too much power when the car is left idle?
A simple test of checking the amps drawn from the battery with everything off (shouldn't be a lot, somewhere near 0.04 amps) with a digital multimeter.

Alternator output also needs to be tested, the rate of spin obviously effects output, but the output needs to be rectified (AC to DC) and limit the output, which could be a problem.

Finally, the S/S sensor on the battery would probably need checking, if it's under reading the condition of the battery, it will cause the same symptoms.

 

[babbo_umbro]

There's at least one other thread on this topic. I had a problem with my 4x4 TA - wasn't always stopping when it should have and would restart almost immediately. Your so-called mechanic is a lazy and/or uninformed sod. After a change of battery and software update months ago mine has worked perfectly.

 

[deeyup]

Mine is still faulty. It stops great, as expected regardless of wipers, lights heated seats etc. just won't restart 1/2 the time. Been like it for the past 15 months

Btw, goudrons, stop/start will not work whilst the car is cold in case you were unaware, so that behaviour is normal.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

I would see stop/start not working as an advantage. Ever since I first drove I have always turned off my engine if I see a longish delay, unlike some people who even keep their engines running in half-hour motorway hold-ups (even running out of petrol). In the heady days of my youth I even turned it off going downhill!

However, I can assess the situation ahead far better than any stop/start system can. I disabled mine (thank goodness you can) on Day 1.

 

[PA312]

Mine does not work. Dealer told me i had to charge the battery and then see.. It worked. For a week. And only for about 8 seconds. Then the engine starts.

Now i have to come back to the dealer. They want to charge the battery thereselve. They told me i most likely drive to many short trips? Mm every day i drive to work that is about 18km. And breng my kid to school that is only 2km so that is short but even after a 300km trip the thing did not work..

Really a lousy system. And the dealer just doesnt know what to do.. Or does not want to.

 

[dogsense]

Well my problem stop start just gets better. The dealer says it works perfectly but the service manager can not get it to work. I complained to fiat.They said take it to another dealer and suggested i travel 68 miles for them to do the same checks as stoneacre conmen. I told him that i did not disagree with there computer check .But surely the proof is in the driving it does not work. So after careful thought it suddenly dawned that i was being given the long stand,by both stoneacre and fiat. So i have decided to not bother with the stop start.But i will not buy fiat again.Shame really as i have bought fiats for the last 30 years.
My first fiat was a fiat uno cracking little car. Fiat need to get there act together, there warranty is a joke. The dealerships are just turning into arthur daily dodgy dealers

 

[Dr Zhivago]

i have decided to not bother with the stop start.But i will not buy fiat again. Shame really as i have bought fiats for the last 30 years.
My first fiat was a fiat uno cracking little car. Fiat need to get there act together, there warranty is a joke. The dealerships are just turning into arthur daily dodgy dealers

Well, I don't suppose your Fiat Uno had Stop/Start 30 years ago, so presumably your gripe is about the dealer's attitude rather than the S/S as such.

I have some sympathy with the dealer. The S/S sytem will be hard-programmed in a microchip, and there is nothing the dealer can do if it is not behaving as advertised or as you expect (unless their mechanics are experts in embedded Assembly language programming). They can't adjust it like a handbrake. Perhaps Fiat are to blame for poor programming, or more likely for outsourcing it, probably to India.

Yesterday I had 10 minutes to kill in the waiting area of a Ford Main Dealer. It may be a consolation to you that on the table among the usual car mags and brochures were several copies of a typed A4 sheet describing the Ford S/S system and how and when it would work (or not work as the case may be). I got the impression that Ford also have issues with their S/S system and hence hassle from customers, and this information sheet had been knocked up as an unofficial handout for those cases.

As I posted earlier, I disabled my S/S on Day 1 when it cut the engine in the middle of a main road while I was waiting to turn right. I missed a few heartbeats until I realised what had happened, because it would have been a very dangerous place to have broken down and somewhere where I would never have shut the engine myself, with even a small risk of not re-starting, just to save a spoonful of fuel. I will make those decisions myself, thanks very much.

 

[deeyup]

My Fiat dealer has a printed a4 sheet about stop/start.
The system is one of the most complained about things at that place and I'd hazard a guess at most dealerships.

The system is 'clunky' to say the least.

 

[muttleysdad]

Ford and Fiat use the same S/s system on the smaller cars, may explain why they have similar problems.

 

[Moultoneer]

Ford and Fiat use the same S/s system on the smaller cars, may explain why they have similar problems.

I'm not too worried by the S/S system's inadequacies, because my type
of journey (mostly long, with very few stops) doesn't give it much use.

When new, I have found the 'depress clutch to restart' useful after
stalling the Twinair engine, but after over 10k miles it's now torquey
enough (and I'm acclimatised enough) that this problem's gone

I'd think the proliferation of Stop/Start on almost all new cars is mainly
to lower the Official EU emissions and fuel consumption figures- and
probably makes little difference in normal driving conditions



Chris

 

[deeyup]

I'd think the proliferation of Stop/Start on almost all new cars is mainly
to lower the Official EU emissions and fuel consumption figures- and
probably makes little difference in normal driving conditions



Chris

I agree on that. If it gets the car into a lower bracket for car tax, then it's all good. The next bracket for the panda 4x4 is £80 a year more at the moment.

One of the guys in the 500 section used the blue and me usb app thing to monitor his consumption, and it worked out a saving of £2.50 or so over a 6 month period.

On saying that, personally I like using it as I like the silence when the car stops.

 

[Trekking]

I experienced the start stop issues in my 14 plate panda trekking recently, the "start stop not available check engine" prompt flashed in the menu window followed by the Amber warning triangle and Amber engine icons that remained constant in the speedo dial.

I was concerned that this may be damaging the engine and therefore contacted the dealer who said it could be a million or one things and that the system would return to operational use once the battery had been charged to full power by the alternator. I did feel that I was being fobbed off but on reflection I had been doing short journeys with the start stop operating and then not functioning. The problem remained for 6 days but after doing a longer journey to allow the alternator to charge the battery the warning lights and warning message did switch off and the system became operative again.

So it does appear that this problem can occur when doing short journeys but will correct its self after a longer journey.

I feel that it would give owners a more positive peace of mind if the warning icons did not show permantly and that only the message displayed when the system was not operative due to the battery needing charging.

I think I will consider switching the start stop system off for a period of time and monitor the mpg, if this does not reduce dramatically then the system will remain permantly off and I will then have a dashboard display that does not show off putting warning icons.

Hope this may help anyone else that is experiencing similar problems to me.

 

[larslarsen]

.....



I was concerned that this may be damaging the engine and therefore contacted the dealer who said it could be a million or one things and that the system would return to operational use once the battery had been charged to full power by the alternator. I did feel that I was being fobbed off but on reflection I had been doing short journeys with the start stop operating and then not functioning. The problem remained for 6 days but after doing a longer journey to allow the alternator to charge the battery the warning lights and warning message did switch off and the system became operative again.



So it does appear that this problem can occur when doing short journeys but will correct its self after a longer journey.



I feel that it would give owners a more positive peace of mind if the warning icons did not show permantly and that only the message displayed when the system was not operative due to the battery needing charging.



......



Hope this may help anyone else that is experiencing similar problems to me.

Thank you!

What does it show to us?

The system is not really intelligent, as it should, because I would expect that it should switch Off S&S until battery has been recharged, to avoid running in a situation, showing such warnung messages as described above.

Thats my conclusion after 3,5 years driving my 500 TA, I got 3 new batterys + one new batterysensor within waranty.

Finaly this does not solved my issue (restarts after 5 to 20 sec), because it seems to be related to my specific driving cycle (60km per day in the morning and in the evening, but start + stop cycles at the END of each trip only).

In case of start + stop cycles also at the beginning (after warming up) and during the trip of longer driving, the system works perfectly.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

So it does appear that this problem can occur when doing short journeys but will correct its self after a longer journey.

It won't necessarily correct itself after a longer journey, as it'll probably require (the battery) a deeper pulse charge, which the car cannot give it through its charging system.

Thank you!

What does it show to us?

The system is not really intelligent, as it should, because I would expect that it should switch Off S&S until battery has been recharged, to avoid running in a situation

So what exactly is it doing then if its not already deactivating when it brings up the warning messages to tell you its not currently functioning? Is this not switching the system off until the battery has been recharged just like you think it should, but think it doesn't

 

[larslarsen]

It won't necessarily correct itself after a longer journey, as it'll probably require (the battery) a deeper pulse charge, which the car cannot give it through its charging system.







So what exactly is it doing then if its not already deactivating when it brings up the warning messages to tell you its not currently functioning? Is this not switching the system off until the battery has been recharged just like you think it should, but think it doesn't

It should avoid to switch off during idle only, without showing such critical warning.
It does in various situations described in the manual (engine cold, A/C required, ....).
Several users already reported, that S&S does not kick in, without any message, what is ok in that situation.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

It should avoid to switch off during idle only, without showing such critical warning.

But it does so currently to inform you of an abnormality in the system, and quite rightly so. I, and I suspect most others, want to know if its operating correctly or not.

If it done as you say then in a few years time when the battery is starting to fail due to old age and stops the SS system from working, without these messages you'd just think it was behaving normally, when in fact it isn't

 

[larslarsen]

But it does so currently to inform you of an abnormality in the system, and quite rightly so. I, and I suspect most others, want to know if its operating correctly or not.



If it done as you say then in a few years time when the battery is starting to fail due to old age and stops the SS system from working, without these messages you'd just think it was behaving normally, when in fact it isn't

The system has a parameter for battery age (remaining capacity) to be displayed in situations as you suggested, but this was not the case here.

In this case the battery was good after recharge.

In my opinion the system might be able to avoid situations the battery must be charged externally, because the strong intelligent alternator and the batterysensor could manage that, by simply avoyding the switch off during idle. Battery couldnt be discharged in case of no engine stop during idle, rare situation out of specification excluded.