Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 30-09-2007   #1
Essex Panda's R Us
 
panda-sport's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basildon, Essex
Posts: 1,063
Thanks: 52
Trader Rating: 0
panda-sport has donated!
United Kingdom 
How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Here is a guide of how to put a punto mk1 85 1242 16v into a 1994 Panda 1000 Fire. (See variations at end for others). This is based on my recolections which where spread over 6 months. It shoudn't take you that long, a fortnight of evenings and weekends should see the job done. There are more photos here



There are loads of variations between Pandas so its best to check and double check all the way

Parts to collect from the punto are

engine complete with alternator, engine loom, ecu, code box, ariel and key, throttle cable, fuel pump, exhaust manifold and down pipe.



FUEL PUMP

Remove the panda fuel pump unit (this is best done by removing the tank as its easier to get a good seal when putting it all back together but can be done in situ), it comes out easier if you remove the sender first (trust me). Replace the silver fuel pump with your 16v one in the panda pump unit. Put it all back.



PREPARING THE 16V

I would change the timing belt while the engine is out of the car as itís a bit tight when itís in. This is also the time to fit a new clutch (16v one to match the engine although you may have to use a Panda release bearing, I did).

And I'm sure you have already removed the power steering pump from the 16v.

PREPARING THE PANDA

Remove the old engine and gearbox from the panda as set out in Haynes/fiat/porter manual.

Just remove the engine loom from the Panda (the bit with the ecu on the end), leave the rest where it is. You can also junk the Pandas MAP sensor (the blue bit on the bracket on the suspension tower). Now is also the best time to fit a blanking plate over the bulkhead ecu wiring hole to stop dirt, noise and fumes entering the cabin when all is finished.

Remove the panda engine mount from the Panda block.

Fit the panda engine mount to the 16v block. Fit the panda gearbox to the 16v engine. If your 16v starter fits then fit it, min didn't as the 16v gearbox had different bolt spacing. Trial fit the panda starter, if it fits OK, if not you will have to shave some metal off the casing, I used an angle grinder and a cardboard template to determine where the metal had to be removed.

The heater box needs a cut out to clear the 16v inlet manifold. The dimensions for the cut out are approx 180mm wide by 70mm high by 20mm deep. The cut out removes one of the flap hinges. I made a new internal bulkhead out of two pieces of mdf and used some B&Q household hinges to remount the flap. I also cut out the front panel of the sound proofing, I cut the whole front panel covering the heater box out but you could be more artistic and just cut a smaller section.



Remove the panda throttle cable and fit the 16v one to the pedal via the bulkhead.

FITTING THE 16V

Before trying to fit the new engine its best to remove the radiator (if you havenít already) and the 16v's inlet manifold, as itís all a bit tight on the way in. The 16v exhaust manifold heat shield (if you fit it) will need a cut out to clear the radiator fan approx 70mm by 40mm.



Fit your new engine and box combo

Refit the 16v inlet manifold and your radiator.

PLUMBING

Use the panda water hoses to plumb in the engine. You will need to plug the carb feed off the rad to heater hose. The heater to block hose is too short, just get a 1m length of 1/2 inch hose from a motor factor (or Halfords).



Plumb the top fuel rail hose to the Pandas wing mounted fuel filter.
Plumb the bottom fuel rail hose to the Pandas fuel return line.

I fitted a cheap aftermarket air filter (K&N mk1 Punto kit) but it may be possible to use and fit the standard Punto air box (I didn't have one to try)

EXHAUST

My exhaust system is the 16v manifold and down pipe, then a custom centre section, and then the panda back box. The custom centre section is made from a 16v flange, a piece of straight pipe, a Jetex box(not probably needed, I was guessing) and half of the original panda centre section.
I also fitted the exhaust support bracket from the Panda block to the 16v block and modified the lower clamp to support the exhaust. To get the best out of this conversion it is probably best to get something better made up exhaust wise!

ELECTRICS

Ah,the wiring, this is how mine worked but do double check with your own, there are always variations.

Start with none of the 16v wiring fitted.

Fit the panda oil pressure wire to the 16v.

Use the panda wiring for the starter and alternator (the connectors may need changing)

Fit the 16v engine loom. Ignore the 16v starter and alternator wires (tape up). The ecu sites itself on the wing and thatís where I fitted mine rather than trying to extend the loom to get it to the Panda ecu mount. There's even a couple of handy studs on the wing to mount a bracket to.

Using a piggy back connecter and a length of wire run from the water temp sensor on the gearbox end of the 16v head to the Panda water temp wire. This bit is optional a the 16v loom also has a feed for the temp gauge but needs a bit more fiddling to get to gauge. All your panda gauges and lights (apart from injection light) should now all be connected and running.

I bolted the 16v engine loom relay block to the heater box. The 16v engine loom connector block should now be resting on the spare wheel shelf.

If you have the rest of the punto wiring then itís easy to cut out all the unwanted wires to leave you with the ones you may need (easier than it sounds once you have removed all the black tape, etc).

The important ones are

Red/Black - 30a Fused battery live - connect to panda loom live but you will need to add a fuse (nicked from remains of punto loom) (also has a spur to code box)

Orange - Live (ignition switch) - connect to panda loom near the battery (also has a spur to code box)

Brown/White - fuel pump feed - connect to panda loom by battery

Green/White and Pink/Yellow - canister solenoid - connect to panda canister solenoid

Black - to code box (earth I believe)

Grey/Green - to code box (ok signal)

With this lot fitted it should run (mine does)

The code box uses 5 wires (the fifth is the punto immobiliser dash light). If you don't have the code box wiring plug a can tell you which ones to connect to.

The other potential useful wires from the loom connector are

Blue - rev counter feed

Blue/Black - injector/ecu fault light (I didn't fit mine, if it runs I'm happy)

Grey/Yellow - Oil pressure warning light (redundant as you are using the panda loom version)

Grey/Black - Alternator warning light (redundant as you are using the panda loom version)

Grey - Water temp feed (redundant if you are using the panda loom version)



Wire in the code box, plug in the code box ariel, tape the blue key to the ariel, hide this lot and then turn your true ignition key!

VARIATIONS

92/93 Panda with bosch ecu

- It has slightly different wiring but at least there is a wiring diagram in the later Haynes manuals.

Non Injection Panda (i.e. carb models)

- You need to either fit a injection type fuel tank and pump or
- Fit a lower pressure electric fuel pump at the tank feeding into a swirl pot/feeder tank, a high pressure fuel pump from the swirl pot to the engine, a return line from the engine to swirl pot and a return from the swirl pot to your main tank.
- In either case all fuel lines MUST be upgraded to high pressure type.

Punto Gearbox

- There is a limited torque rating on the Panda gearbox and some like to upgrade to the donor Punto gearbox. This requires new mounts to be made along with modified gear linkages. I currently have no details on this mod.


Punto Mk2 16V engine

- This engine uses a different ecu and wiring. It is also fitted with a fly-by-wire throttle. Some people convert this by fitting a mk1 inlet manifold and ecu, others fit an alternative throttle body and use an aftermarket ecu. It can be made to work using the Punto throttle pedal and wiring. For more ideas see the cinq/sei section of FF

Punto/Stilo 1400 16V

- The remarks for the mk2 16v also apply for this engine. Also as it has more torque than the 1242 16v you really need to fit the Punto/Stilo gearbox.

Fuel Pump cut out switch

- Some Pandas are fitted with a resetable switch in the passengerís foot well. This may affect the wiring. None of my Pandas have it fitted so itís hard for me to advise.

4x4 Panda

- You may have more problem finding a spot for your ecu as they often have the radiator expansion bottle and headlight washer bottle fitted to the driverís side wing.

903 engine Panda

- You will also have to find a fire gearbox and Panda Fire engine mounts.
Thanks andyholli, jangcy thanked for this post
Likes clowndog, Eklipze3k liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

panda-sport is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-09-2007   #2
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London
Posts: 889
Thanks: 73
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Nice one and thank you.
Rgds.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

petel is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-09-2007   #3
Status: DEFCON Grumpy
 
custard's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 30,129
Thanks: 495
Trader Rating: 1
custard has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

you should make it into a proper guide

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-guides/
custard is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-10-2007   #4
Chichi and Qing Qing
 
pandamonius_maximus's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3,047
Thanks: 108
Trader Rating: 0
pandamonius_maximus has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Copy - paste - word.......
Thanks L7 KVV thanked for this post
pandamonius_maximus is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-10-2007   #5
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hebden Bridge
Posts: 309
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

GOOD GUIDE MATEE !!!
im undergoing a similar project.
for now all i can say is
a MASSIVE thanks to Damon for help all round.
and especially help on wiring !!!!

and i have some info too...
Quote Originally Posted by panda-sport View Post
Punto Gearbox
- There is a limited torque rating on the Panda gearbox and some like to upgrade to the donor Punto gearbox. This requires new mounts to be made along with modified gear linkages. I currently have no details on this mod.
making the mounts is NOT easy.
i took me nearly a day to make both the gearbox mounts.
there is no room on the wing mount to hang the box off it.
you have you change it to upward and going down either side of the box.

i will know more when she is driving.
the gearlink was ok to make ,made alot easyer by welding.
its no direct fit, and the main rod and small lever need changing in length.
and the actual axle off the gear stick to the bulkhead needs straightening in the vice. cos its quite curvy.

currently im making a full 2" exhaust with one good sports backbox.
i will know more soon..

aran.
__________________
Current owner of a ----------Creator of a beasty
40mm lower COLOUR---------- 1242cc white 4x4

Xsisley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #6
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Watford
Posts: 7,329
Thanks: 238
Trader Rating: 0
Chas Uno has donated!
Air Dodge Champion, Asteroids2000 Champion, Frogger Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Just think, we could have a world full of 16v 1242 engined classic Pandas terrorising the streets
__________________

Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
we got a lot 126 here in Egypt .. a funny car and fun to drive though sometimes i feel like I am sitting on a chair in the middle of the street
http://onastick.net/drew/sinistar/
Chas Uno is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #7
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Essex/Suffolk border
Posts: 82,510
Thanks: 1458
Trader Rating: 10
dave has donated!
dave is an official FF Advertiser
dave is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Quote Originally Posted by pandamonius_maximus View Post
Copy - paste - word.......
cant do that, guides need to be correct format
__________________
ďThe further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.Ē
dave is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #8
Czech It Out!
 
Nuova500's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,660
Thanks: 76
Trader Rating: 0
Nuova500 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

I do enough terrorising in my 903, Id be lethal with a 1242!
__________________
Ex 500 Owner! Ive even bought a Pug for the wife!!!
Nuova500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #9
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Essex/Suffolk border
Posts: 82,510
Thanks: 1458
Trader Rating: 10
dave has donated!
dave is an official FF Advertiser
dave is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

where is the alfa v6 in a panda guide?
__________________
ďThe further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.Ē
dave is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #10
Czech It Out!
 
Nuova500's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,660
Thanks: 76
Trader Rating: 0
Nuova500 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

I have a feeling somone is considering that very thing Dave!
__________________
Ex 500 Owner! Ive even bought a Pug for the wife!!!
Nuova500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #11
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Essex/Suffolk border
Posts: 82,510
Thanks: 1458
Trader Rating: 10
dave has donated!
dave is an official FF Advertiser
dave is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

i have a feeling that the engine is bought
__________________
ďThe further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.Ē
dave is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #12
panda and multipla mod
 
urchin's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ilkeston
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 51
Trader Rating: 3
urchin will never be forgotten
urchin has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Quote Originally Posted by Xsisley View Post
GOOD GUIDE MATEE !!!
im undergoing a similar project.
for now all i can say is
a MASSIVE thanks to Damon for help all round.
and especially help on wiring !!!!

and i have some info too...


making the mounts is NOT easy.
i took me nearly a day to make both the gearbox mounts.
there is no room on the wing mount to hang the box off it.
you have you change it to upward and going down either side of the box.

i will know more when she is driving.
the gearlink was ok to make ,made alot easyer by welding.
its no direct fit, and the main rod and small lever need changing in length.
and the actual axle off the gear stick to the bulkhead needs straightening in the vice. cos its quite curvy.

currently im making a full 2" exhaust with one good sports backbox.
i will know more soon..

aran.
aran, did you fit a 1242 8v fire into your 4x4? is it easy whats involved oh and is it worth the trouble? im thinking about it for my silver 4x4sr.
__________________
current fleet: 1982 126 deville, 1988 panda 4x4 sr, 1989 panda 4x4, 1994 cinquecento sporting, 1996 1st van aaken cinquecento turbo
1999 seicento sporting, 2001 multipla ELX, 2004 panda dynamic skydome, niewiadow N250C trailer, fiat trekking Bike
urchin is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2007   #13
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hebden Bridge
Posts: 309
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

yes i did !
and although the 4x4 box really wouldnt like any 16v power
etc..

a 1242 8v is a very noticable upgrade on a 4x4.
i loved it, and so did the car.

i had it with the 4x4s head used.
pretty much standard exhaust.
twin bike K+Ns and it was brill !!

is it worth the trouble !!
WHAT trouble ! hehe
i did it in 1 and a half days on my own,from driving to driving !
using loops of rope with car jacks on a beam of wood as a hoist.

DO IT ! i used a punto 75, but once you have used the panda head its the same as a punto 60 engine. i got my engine for £50
i rekon my 4x4 was on about 65 hp.
only mod thats gotta be done is extending the exhaust by 20mm.

aran.
__________________
Current owner of a ----------Creator of a beasty
40mm lower COLOUR---------- 1242cc white 4x4

Xsisley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-10-2007   #14
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Stockport
Posts: 478
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

...... Assuming you can find someone selling a punto engine that actually works properly so you don't remove a perfectly good panda engine and replace with some worn out chav wreck -.-
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Jaff_Fox is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-10-2007   #15
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Watford
Posts: 7,329
Thanks: 238
Trader Rating: 0
Chas Uno has donated!
Air Dodge Champion, Asteroids2000 Champion, Frogger Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
i have a feeling that the engine is bought
I have a feeling I know who is involved
__________________

Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
we got a lot 126 here in Egypt .. a funny car and fun to drive though sometimes i feel like I am sitting on a chair in the middle of the street
http://onastick.net/drew/sinistar/
Chas Uno is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(G) How many Puntos are there on the Forum? - The Thread FiatStiloJTD Punto (Mk2/2b) 543 06-06-2008 18:15
(G) How many panda owners Fiat Nutter Panda (Classic) 111 08-12-2006 21:19