Save up to 15% with Adrian Flux insurance!

'71 850 Spider - Starter wont Stop

Currently reading:
'71 850 Spider - Starter wont Stop

O

Ottocentocinquanta

New member
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
13
Points
4
Location
Seattle
Hello, I have a 1971 850 Sport Spider that I am bringing back to life.
Has been sitting since the 90's...
Got the engine to spin, it was slightly seized initially. Also freed up the ignition switch, that was seized too. Now, when I turn the key, I hear a "bong" sound like a relay engaging. And then when I turn the ignition to "start" the engine turns over like it should.
However, once you let the ignition go back to "run" the starter is still turning the engine over. Turn the ignition all the way "off" and it is still turning the engine!
Currently the only way to stop the starter is to remove the battery terminal to cut the power.
I have bench tested the starter and it seems to work as it should.
I am wondering if the connections at the ignition switch could be hooked up wrong?
I can post a picture of a drawing I made of the ignition wires and their location.
Any insight is appreciated
 
Ottocentocinquanta said:
Hello, I have a 1971 850 Sport Spider that I am bringing back to life.
Has been sitting since the 90's...
Got the engine to spin, it was slightly seized initially. Also freed up the ignition switch, that was seized too. Now, when I turn the key, I hear a "bong" sound like a relay engaging. And then when I turn the ignition to "start" the engine turns over like it should.
However, once you let the ignition go back to "run" the starter is still turning the engine over. Turn the ignition all the way "off" and it is still turning the engine!
Currently the only way to stop the starter is to remove the battery terminal to cut the power.
I have bench tested the starter and it seems to work as it should.
I am wondering if the connections at the ignition switch could be hooked up wrong?
I can post a picture of a drawing I made of the ignition wires and their location.
Any insight is appreciated
Click to expand...

A picture of the wiring would be helpful

Do you have a workshop manual. If not I could copy a picture of the wiring diagram for you.

Also check if there is a relay that is sticking on.

It would have a wire from the starter solenoid leading to it.
 
Sorry for the late reply. Yes a diagram would be helpful if it isnt too much trouble.
I will attempt to post the photo here, this site is different than most forums I'm used to in that you cannot use external image hosting sites.

20180813_173923.jpg


In the image there is the wire positions of both the '71 and '68 Spiders I am working on. The top group is the '71.
I was hoping to compare them but they are different.
 
Last edited:
Ottocentocinquanta said:
Sorry for the late reply. Yes a diagram would be helpful if it isnt too much trouble.
I will attempt to post the photo here, this site is different than most forums I'm used to in that you cannot use external image hosting sites.

20180813_173923.jpg




In the image there is the wire positions of both the '71 and '68 Spiders I am working on. The top group is the '71.
I was hoping to compare them but they are different.
Click to expand...

Hi

I just saw your reply. About to go to sleep so I will try to post the wiring diagram tomorrow. Please follow up with a quote if I forget and I will get an email alert

Cheers

Geoff
 
You might try pulling the small lead going to the starter motor solenoid, (the one with the spade terminal) and using a multimeter, check if you have power at it with the ignition key in the starter position and no power when the key is released. This will help you determine if the problem is with the starter motor (possibly solenoid sticking?) or the wiring at the ignition switch.

I don't think there is an additional relay between the ignition switch and the starter motor solenoid (I've worked on 850 Coupe but not 850 Spider) but a wiring diagram should determine this.

Iirc the wire on the back of the ignition switch going to the starter solenoid is Pink in color (possibly pink with a tracer color blue?) and goes to terminal 15/54, but you'd need to check this against a wring diagram also.

AL.
 
Last edited:
F123C said:
You might try pulling the small lead going to the starter motor solenoid, (the one with the spade terminal) and using a multimeter, check if you have power at it with the ignition key in the starter position and no power when the key is released. This will help you determine if the problem is with the starter motor (possibly solenoid sticking?) or the wiring at the ignition switch.

I don't think there is an additional relay between the ignition switch and the starter motor solenoid (I've worked on 850 Coupe but not 850 Spider) but a wiring diagram should determine this.

Iirc the wire on the back of the ignition switch going to the starter solenoid is Pink in color (possibly pink with a tracer color blue?) and goes to terminal 15/54, but you'd need to check this against a wring diagram also.

AL.
Click to expand...

I have put a reminder in my phone to take a pic of the wiring diagram tomorrow
 
Here is the Coupe wiring - the starter circuit should be similar for the spider

Cheers

Geoff
 

Attachments

  • 676CBEB2-0DCF-4A7C-8D40-B8CD1FD28F34.jpeg
    676CBEB2-0DCF-4A7C-8D40-B8CD1FD28F34.jpeg
    2.1 MB · Views: 69
Mea Culpa time :eek: , I got it wrong (post #5 above).

Going by the above wiring diagram kindly posted by 1500500, it would appear that the wire (cable) operating the starter motor solenoid is Rosso (=red) and goes to terminal 50 on the rear of the ignition switch. (I mis-remembered it as a Pink wire going to terminal 15/54).

Note also that the number of terminals and terminal numbering on the rear of ignition switches can vary a bit - there was iirc a thread a while back concerning replacement ignition switches for the 124 Spider where the poster ran into problems as the only replacement switch he could obtain had a different no. of terminals and slightly different terminal numbering - but it could be made to work.

AL.
 
Going by the above wiring diagram, there is no relay anywhere between the ignition switch and the starter motor (although the starter motor solenoid is a relay itself:) ). The only relay I can see in for the Horn.

AL.
 
A couple of further thoughts on the starter motor problem:-

Some of the older Fiat starter motors had solenoids that could be dismantled - see if there are (3?) studs with nuts running lengthwise on the solenoid. If it can be dismantled, it can be cleaned up, including the copper contacts. If you can't fix it, solenoids are available as a spare part.

From your description of the problem, it sounds to me like a sticking solenoid.

When you bench tested the starter motor, did the solenoid engage and disengage correctly?

AL.
 
My appologies for such a late reply, I have been busy as ever lately.
Unfortunately I havent been able to do much with the 850 Spider lately, work and other things are to blame.
The starter solenoid was working correctly, so it seemed, when I was bench testing the starter....
Hopefully I can get the ball rolling on this project again sooner than later
 
There must be something wrong with me...
Two British sports cars have followed me home since the initial posting of this thread.
Unfortunately for the '71 850 Spider I've been distracted.
However I haven't stopped thinking about the starter problem.

I have heard in other car applications, that having the starter switch wired up wrong can cause the starter-run-on problem that I am having.

So, I have a favor to ask of the 850 Spider Community... would someone with a '71 850 Spider be willing to lay down under their dash, and draw out their wires going to the starter switch as I have? I must be very close, just a wire or two in the wrong spot... would be very much appreciated

Edit: Also still need to check with the multi meter and verify the colors of the wires with the diagram...
Note to self... thin out some of the projects...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
General 850 Spider parts wanted
Replies
1
Views
357
Widarwidar
W
S
Technical 1968 850 Spider Ignition Switch Wiring
Replies
3
Views
713
bugsymike
B
F
  • Question
Technical 67 850 Spider dash lights
Replies
0
Views
332
FPGT72
F
C
Technical 1972 Fiat Spider Sport 850 Hazards but No Turn Signals or Reverse Lights
Replies
7
Views
342
bugsymike
B
D
General 850 Spider Parts
Replies
10
Views
2K
sledgehammer
S
Back
Top