Technical engine swap 903cc in a 600d

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Technical engine swap 903cc in a 600d

bullit II

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Hi! I am new in the Fiat game, i just purchased a 1967 600d with a 767 cc engine, i allso got a engine from a 127 1975 mod a 903cc.
i am restoring the 600d to a abarth spec. it will be a total restore jobb.
My first thing is the 600d engine and 903cc engine does rotate diffrent ways. how do i prepare the 903cc engine sow it will rotate the same as the 767cc engine.

Hope of help.
 
Engines do rotate the difrent ways. and the 903cc engine is fitted in a127 fiat and the engine is mounted in the front transvers way. so the gear box dos not fit in the rear engined 600d.
The converting has ben done, but the description to do the total job is not on the internet. i did not find any information anywhere. thanks
 
ask same question within the 500 classic forum? I am sure that front engined panda 30's turn opposite way to 500/126's, but a common practice to fit panda heads, etc on 126 engines, etc.

If camshaft can be changed between engines that might solve it?? Or swap engine block n pistons??

Pity you are not UK, I fancy taking a look at it.....Anything is possible with enough time n money......;)
 
Last edited:
Hi! I am new in the Fiat game, i just purchased a 1967 600d with a 767 cc engine, i allso got a engine from a 127 1975 mod a 903cc.
i am restoring the 600d to a abarth spec. it will be a total restore jobb.
My first thing is the 600d engine and 903cc engine does rotate diffrent ways. how do i prepare the 903cc engine sow it will rotate the same as the 767cc engine.

Hope of help.

Very surprised to hear that the 127 engine spins the 'wrong" way. I had a couple of 600Ds and an 850 Sport years ago, so I know the 850 Sport Coupe engine goes the other way - crankshaft goes anticlockwise looking from the timing chain end, but I'm 99 percent certain the 127 goes the "normal" way. It's no big deal to put a 903 engine from an 850 in a 600. The cylinder head's fine, you need to change the camshaft, distributor (I think), and oil pump and - again I think - turn the pistons round.
 
Hi!

I have now investigated more it is right that a 903 engine from a 850 turns ccw from the timing chain end, but the 903 from the 127 does turn cw so i am in the clear. i just had to put a batteri in the 127, it put a smile on my face when i saw the engine turned CW, which does not have the sylinder head mounted, becuse of a blown headgasket,failure is down to two broaken hed bolts. is this a common problem with headbolts breaking?
Have anyone experience with which camshaft profile to fit to get some more hp out of the 903cc engine. i am skimming the head to abaut 12:1 comp ratio. fitting allso a tubular exhaust manifold and a weber 40 a standing one i think it is called a idh!!!
 
Hi! I am new in the Fiat game, i just purchased a 1967 600d with a 767 cc engine, i allso got a engine from a 127 1975 mod a 903cc.
i am restoring the 600d to a abarth spec. it will be a total restore jobb.
My first thing is the 600d engine and 903cc engine does rotate diffrent ways. how do i prepare the 903cc engine sow it will rotate the same as the 767cc engine.

Hope of help.


Why not use 850 box ? im planing to do that on my 600 , because of low budget for the moment , when i`l have more money , i will try to fit uno turbo engine , if you can find autobianchi abarth engine it will be better , 70 hp 1100 as i know and about 7000 rpm or so , good engine .
 
Why not use 850 box ? im planing to do that on my 600 , because of low budget for the moment , when i`l have more money , i will try to fit uno turbo engine , if you can find autobianchi abarth engine it will be better , 70 hp 1100 as i know and about 7000 rpm or so , good engine .


a 850 box is not in possesion, why use one? is it better than the 600d box!!!!
It is wery hard to sorse a autobianchi here in norway even a abarth one wery tough.
But the block from a 1050cc ohc will fit as well on the 600d box or not.? fitted with a head from a 903 engine.

The 1050cc engine is allsow a hard to find aitem.
 
Hi!

I have now investigated more it is right that a 903 engine from a 850 turns ccw from the timing chain end, but the 903 from the 127 does turn cw so i am in the clear. i just had to put a batteri in the 127, it put a smile on my face when i saw the engine turned CW, which does not have the sylinder head mounted, becuse of a blown headgasket,failure is down to two broaken hed bolts. is this a common problem with headbolts breaking?
Have anyone experience with which camshaft profile to fit to get some more hp out of the 903cc engine. i am skimming the head to abaut 12:1 comp ratio. fitting allso a tubular exhaust manifold and a weber 40 a standing one i think it is called a idh!!!
When I had my Abarths we used uprated head bolts/torque values, also the valve heads were profiled and the pistons were cast to fit the head shape. The cam profiles were quite vicious and lobe / follower wear was poor! [ engine out every month!!!] brake disc's were grooved with matched grooved pads this has the affect of increasing the brake area by about 20% for the same size disc!! - may be able to track some more of my old data
 
a 850 box is not in possesion, why use one? is it better than the 600d box!!!!
It is wery hard to sorse a autobianchi here in norway even a abarth one wery tough.
But the block from a 1050cc ohc will fit as well on the 600d box or not.? fitted with a head from a 903 engine.

The 1050cc engine is allsow a hard to find aitem.

You'd only need an 850 gearbox if you were using the engine from an 850/850 Sport - that's one that spins the 'wrong" way - using one with your 127 engine would give you four reverse speeds and one very low-geared forward gear - terrific 0-15mph times but no good otherwise. 850 gearbox is quite a bit heavier than the 600 one - obviously stronger and with a largely cast-iron casing, rather than aluminium (in Norway you should be encouraging the use of aluminium!) but I'd stick with the 600 unless your engine gets too powerful for it. From memory, you'll have to change the centre plate on your clutch to get splines that match the input shaft on the 600 box - I seem to remember they're much coarser on the 600 than on a 127/850 clutch plate.

You can do a certain amount to open out the single port on top of the 600/850 cylinder head but this is a severe limiting factor on that engine. The bottom end and other revolving parts will take fairly high rpm but power falls off because of the limited intake possibilities. I always thought that supercharging was the way to go to overcome these limitations but never tried it (went to a 500 with BMW flat twin engine instead). I fitted a single-barrel 40mm Solex carburettor on my 850cc 600 with Giannini cam and other tuning bits, like the Abarth 850TC. Same carburettor as was fitted in pairs to the 2.4-litre Jaguar saloons of the time with different jets, but could be a possible source of a carb. 12-to-1 compression ratio seems much too high, I doubt if there's any benefit from going over 10-to-1. The 1050cc 127 engine is a completely different type - built in Brazil if I remember correctly, but there are no common engine parts. To be honest - and not wanting to discourage you - if you're asking this sort of question, are you sure you should be undertaking major mechanical modifications on a car?

By the way, where are you in Norway? My brother lives in Voss.
 
Hi

I think you will find that The uno and 127 engines are the same, ie clock wise rotation, the 127 engine and box being exported into the Uno. The main thing that determines engine rotation is the cam. Oil pump needs to be changed. Have you checked if these are interchangeable?

Jules
 
Hi

I think you will find that The uno and 127 engines are the same, ie clock wise rotation, the 127 engine and box being exported into the Uno. The main thing that determines engine rotation is the cam. Oil pump needs to be changed. Have you checked if these are interchangeable?

Jules

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the pistons may need to be turned round as the thrust face may be different from the other one.
 
You'd only need an 850 gearbox if you were using the engine from an 850/850 Sport - that's one that spins the 'wrong" way - using one with your 127 engine would give you four reverse speeds and one very low-geared forward gear - terrific 0-15mph times but no good otherwise. 850 gearbox is quite a bit heavier than the 600 one - obviously stronger and with a largely cast-iron casing, rather than aluminium (in Norway you should be encouraging the use of aluminium!) but I'd stick with the 600 unless your engine gets too powerful for it. From memory, you'll have to change the centre plate on your clutch to get splines that match the input shaft on the 600 box - I seem to remember they're much coarser on the 600 than on a 127/850 clutch plate.

You can do a certain amount to open out the single port on top of the 600/850 cylinder head but this is a severe limiting factor on that engine. The bottom end and other revolving parts will take fairly high rpm but power falls off because of the limited intake possibilities. I always thought that supercharging was the way to go to overcome these limitations but never tried it (went to a 500 with BMW flat twin engine instead). I fitted a single-barrel 40mm Solex carburettor on my 850cc 600 with Giannini cam and other tuning bits, like the Abarth 850TC. Same carburettor as was fitted in pairs to the 2.4-litre Jaguar saloons of the time with different jets, but could be a possible source of a carb. 12-to-1 compression ratio seems much too high, I doubt if there's any benefit from going over 10-to-1. The 1050cc 127 engine is a completely different type - built in Brazil if I remember correctly, but there are no common engine parts. To be honest - and not wanting to discourage you - if you're asking this sort of question, are you sure you should be undertaking major mechanical modifications on a car?

By the way, where are you in Norway? My brother lives in Voss.

Hi thanks for information. i will try to use the 600d box it has 97 000km so i hope it is ok, all syncro hubs are ok ,it is in the car at the moment so i had it for a spinn,before i start to take it to bits and get the body sand blasted.
Hmm. so the 1050 cc is a totally difrent block, then i will stick to the 903 cc,
The giannini cam u used what was its duration degre!
The cylinderhead neads some work the intake hole is cuite narrow, but it probebly needs carefull work so i dont grind inn to water jackets or pushrod holes. Do you have pictures of the one you did!

I live in Tønsberg it is on the south east in the beginning of the oslo fjord.
I just finnished my 78 mini cooper racer witch i totally rebuild, it is now a 1293cc with a med race head, with a 45 dcoe 296 cam arp steel bolts in the bottom ballanced crank, and a verry light flywheel, 12,3:1 comp.
revs to 9000rpm a werry funn car to race with, we do race 4 houer races in sweeden bmcmotorsport, mine is in gulf colours.
 
I was fiddling about with tuning 600s, and then 500s, in the mid- to late-1960s, so I'm dredging the depths of my memory here and don't have any pictures. Radbourne Racing - who were the Abarth agents in those days - used to publish a catalogue which included valve timings for the various states of tune; the hottest cam was pretty extreme I think. It's possible that an 850 Sport Coupe head has larger valves than a 127/Uno engine, and I'm pretty sure it had something more interesting in the carburettor area. It might be worth checking this and also finding out about valve sizes and so on for the 843cc engine that was in the 850 saloon, as that should have smaller combustion chambers that could help you to raise the compression ration. By the way, the Autobianchi A112 had the same 903 cc engine (and also the 1050 cc engine in the Abarth version).

At one stage I had a Cox GTM kit car - one of the two non-Italian cars that I've had, which had a 970cc Cooper S engine - great little unit with an incredible appetite for revs.
 
They are hard to find even here in the "States", but a company called PBS Engineering, made a set of reversing gears at one time. The cam and crank are connected directly to each other rather than being connected by a chain. The top end rotates in its original direction and the bottom end "backwards".
 
They are hard to find even here in the "States", but a company called PBS Engineering, made a set of reversing gears at one time. The cam and crank are connected directly to each other rather than being connected by a chain. The top end rotates in its original direction and the bottom end "backwards".

Radbourne Racing - the one-time UK Abarth distributors I mentioned in an earlier post - used to market a kit to allow the (pushrod, not twin cam) 124 engine to run its crank the wrong way thus enabling it to drive via an 850 gearbox. They put it in a beautiful little Abarth coupe that they sold for a while (we're going back to the 1960s here) but it would also work for any 850 or 600 with an 850 gearbox.
 
If I recall correctly, the 903cc from Uno/Panda will fit fine and rotate the correct way. But, the 850 engines, rotate the wrong way.

Other thing you'll come into with that is the two variants of 600 gearbox, different number of splines on the primary shaft that connects to the clutch
 
Ok, 127/Uno/Panda 903 engines all rotate the same clockwise direction, the same as a 600 so fitting a 903 in a 600 is straightforward, unless its a 903 from an 850 (saloon/coupe/spyder/camper etc) which all rotate counter clockwise so best avoided.

So, get yourself a 903 from Uno/127/Panda but you cannot use the clutch/flywheel from these, instead you will need to use a 600D clutch and flywheel, although this is not ideal as the clutch is smaller diameter than the Panda/Uno/127.

Cylinder heads are all interchangeable, valve sizes for all the above 903's are the same and these are larger than a 767 or 633cc engine from a 600. So you can get yourself a big valve head for a 767 or 633 just by bolting on a 903 head, combustion chambers are a different matter - not sure on these!

Ideally you want the head from a 903 850Coupe or Spyder or 850 Special as these all have the 30DIC Weber twin choke as standard and matching manifold and also a much larger inlet port cast into the head. Some 127's also used this casting (early 1970's models usually).

The other thing to remember is that the 903 engine is actually taller than the 767/633 engine and you will therefore need to run a raised engine lid, also will be better for cooling too.

Avoid the 843/903 engine from any 850 based car or can and avoid this gearbox too for use in a 600, far better to run the proper direction engine from the outset and the gearbox is much heavier, much work to fit in a 600 shell and probably no stronger - 600D gearboxes can handle over 100bhp in good condition.

Autobianchi A110 Abarth engines are the ultimate bolt in swap for a 600, available as 58bhp or 70bhp engines but both are very hard to find. The 58hp engine was a 972? cc and the 70hp was a 1050cc, hence the extra power. This 1050cc engine is nothing like the 1050cc engine found in the 127 though.

I hope this helps!

I've found this info from various internet searches and from my own reference, I currently have a 600D which is slowly being restored/modified as an Abarth replica and also have on its way from Australia a perfect 1971 850 Coupe which will be modified lightly - lowered suspension, 5.5x13 Cromodora mags with low profiles, fully polished and ported head and inlet manifold etc and possibly a turbo conversion.

|Good luck with the 600

Lee:devil:
 
I have a related question.

I have a seized 903 fiat 850 engine I want to rebuild and install in my fiat 600.

The 850 came with different cc’s and hp’s. They were anywhere between 843 cc 34 HP; and the 903 cc 52 HP.

Since mine is the largest version, will it be able to be bored and put bigger pistons?

Thank you
 
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