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Old 13-06-2009   #46
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
The number was 255, and it's not that suspicious as that's the highest number a computer can store in an 8-bit counter. Once the count reaches 255 it must stop counting.
Well spotted

I can only speak for a JTD but when mine had some work done recently the over rev counter still stood at zero.

Considering I drive mine quite enthusiastically then I was actually rather surprised by this. Not certain but I believe dates are also logged.

On that basis, I'd expect an engine is likely to be in a very poor state indeed on a count of only 16 let alone 256
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Old 14-06-2009   #47
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
The number was 255, and it's not that suspicious as that's the highest number a computer can store in an 8-bit counter. Once the count reaches 255 it must stop counting.
Meh close enough. The point was that every time Fiat have used it as a reason to avoid paying out it has been the same number.
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Old 15-06-2009   #48
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by punto_matt View Post
Meh close enough. The point was that every time Fiat have used it as a reason to avoid paying out it has been the same number.
As already pointed out by ducasi that simply means the engine has been over-revved so many times that the counter has lost track. It would translate to extreme abuse

What would be significant is if they never reject (or at least warn about) engines in the range of say 50-100 or 100-200 times etc. This would be statistically significant and might indicate a software glitch exists
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Old 15-06-2009   #49
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

I know it translates to extreme abuse but its dodgy that its the same amount on all the cases of boxes going for refusal under warrenty work. If there was some variation in the amount of over revs then it wouldnt be so suspicious.
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Old 16-06-2009   #50
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

I'm not surprised a Jtd would'nt have any logged, can you even hit the limiter in a diesel?

Fiat have been using this get out for years.
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Old 16-06-2009   #51
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by HgtBill View Post
I'm not surprised a Jtd would'nt have any logged, can you even hit the limiter in a diesel?
Pretty easy I'd think - although it would be a pretty dumb thing to do - and I certainly haven't got any intention of giving a demo

I'm not even convinced there's a direct correlation between the rev limiter and the over rev counter. Perhaps you also need to hold it for a few seconds before the counter trips I've done a few 40 - 80 timings in 3rd which does take you some way into the red - but as said abuse counter is still on zero

Quote Quote:
Fiat have been using this get out for years.
Why is it a "get out" if the engine has obviously been abused
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Old 16-06-2009   #52
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

But it hasnt that is what we are saying. Fiat use it on every claim that has popped up on here. Do you not think that is even slightly suspicious that its the same for every box that goes?
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Old 16-06-2009   #53
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by punto_matt View Post
But it hasnt that is what we are saying. Fiat use it on every claim that has popped up on here. Do you not think that is even slightly suspicious that its the same for every box that goes?
Quote Originally Posted by Argonought View Post
What would be significant is if they never reject (or at least warn about) engines in the range of say 50-100 or 100-200 times etc. This would be statistically significant and might indicate a software glitch exists
Thought I had

..but you have to remember that Fiat might have a policy of ONLY rejecting claims in which the counter has reached it's limit (255 in decimal binary). Obviously, you'd expect them to be able to report counts recorded from 1 to 244 as well. If they couldn't then I certainly agree it would be suspicious.
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Old 16-06-2009   #54
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

I keep getting confused with what im reading lol.
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Old 16-06-2009   #55
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

what suspicous is that all the ones seems to have been over revved 255 times- which suggests that they are hitting the limiter practically once a day!

I seriously doubt that everyone with rejected warranty claims has over revved their car 255 times (well possibly more if the ECU stops counting).

What we do need to find out is if FIAT are rejecting claims where the ecu has logged less than 255 over revs...
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Old 16-06-2009   #56
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by Tris Harris View Post
What we do need to find out is if FIAT are rejecting claims where the ecu has logged less than 255 over revs...
Exactly so
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Old 16-06-2009   #57
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

It seems like a totally cop out on Fiats behalf as other manufacturers do not use an 'over-rev' counter to get out of warranty claims - which could be partly to do with the reason of them being bottom table when it comes to overall customer experience.

It might also help to find out what kinds of repairs are being rejected - are they just powertrain faults or drivetrain etc also ? How about copy and paste from people who have had rejected claims based on the 'over-rev' counter and what fault they had with the vehicle ?
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Old 16-06-2009   #58
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by HgtBill View Post
I'm not surprised a Jtd would'nt have any logged, can you even hit the limiter in a diesel?
er...

Quote Originally Posted by Hellcat View Post
Part of the current diesel MOT is a single rev to the limiter.
It's not hard to hit it, it's not hard to go over it. I've dropped into 3rd once instead of 5th coming down from 6th and almost over-reved but as the clutch started to bite I noticed quick enough and engaged the cluch back in fast enough to prevent an over-rev.
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Old 16-06-2009   #59
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by Citizen Smith View Post

It might also help to find out what kinds of repairs are being rejected - are they just powertrain faults or drivetrain etc also ? How about copy and paste from people who have had rejected claims based on the 'over-rev' counter and what fault they had with the vehicle ?

This was the idea when I started the thread.

In the particular case I have started digging a bit deeper. It is claimed that the car had 3 over revs of 1800 milliseconds at 6500rpm on a Diesel. Also it emerged (much later although they knew it) that the rpm sensor had a fault. Still warranty warranty is refused.

Next step is hitting hard. But would help to get more cases together and it will go to the relevant authorities.
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Old 16-06-2009   #60
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Re: Fiat declining warranty claims

Quote Originally Posted by Oldschool View Post
This was the idea when I started the thread.

In the particular case I have started digging a bit deeper. It is claimed that the car had 3 over revs of 1800 milliseconds at 6500rpm on a Diesel. Also it emerged (much later although they knew it) that the rpm sensor had a fault. Still warranty warranty is refused.

Next step is hitting hard. But would help to get more cases together and it will go to the relevant authorities.
As said by HC diesel smoke test would need to go full throttle so would that cause over rev log entry ?
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