Part of the current diesel MOT is a single rev to the limiter.
Fiat declining warranty claims
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Fiat declining warranty claims
An over-rev is when the rev limiter is reached. Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
I hadn't heard about this specific problem, but its a known fact that any manufacturer will try and get out of a warranty claim on any defect. So its only natural for Fiat to try and claim an over-rev caused the damage. If that is the case then their self imposed limit is in the wrong place. So should they recall all cars to lower the rev limit in the ECU? No.
And if a g/box was examined by Fiat and a design / material fault was found, they are not likely to admit any guilt to a customer. Unless there was a Watchdog type enquiry with many proven examples of Fiats work to blame. Which I personally don't think will happen. Remember the Clio bonnets popping open? Renault response? Customers aren't shutting them properly. And the Astra failing wishbones? Customers were all jacking them up in the wrong places. And the Peugeots catching fire? The customers were all leaving the starter motors engaged. Sh!t sticks, as they say.
I hadn't heard about this specific problem, but its a known fact that any manufacturer will try and get out of a warranty claim on any defect. So its only natural for Fiat to try and claim an over-rev caused the damage. If that is the case then their self imposed limit is in the wrong place. So should they recall all cars to lower the rev limit in the ECU? No.
And if a g/box was examined by Fiat and a design / material fault was found, they are not likely to admit any guilt to a customer. Unless there was a Watchdog type enquiry with many proven examples of Fiats work to blame. Which I personally don't think will happen. Remember the Clio bonnets popping open? Renault response? Customers aren't shutting them properly. And the Astra failing wishbones? Customers were all jacking them up in the wrong places. And the Peugeots catching fire? The customers were all leaving the starter motors engaged. Sh!t sticks, as they say.
My first one blew apart in side and part of the 6th gear was rattleing around side the bell housing!.
Second one just had some sort of internal linkage failure not quite sure as I didn't want to pay out my own pocket for diagnosis. They refused warranty under the grounds I had a GSR induction kit and painted alloys
Thats no grounds to refuse warranty, i phoned Fiat UK and asked them what the hell a GSR has to do with a Gearbox and they will honour there warranty. You just have to stick to your guns an tell them Harsh but humble and they will give in.
Edit if the power is more than it should without the necessary tweaks to the map then the limit may be reached out of sink to how it should be on the Engine Management System and possibly cause problems with the car.
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The number was 255, and it's not that suspicious as that's the highest number a computer can store in an 8-bit counter. Once the count reaches 255 it must stop counting.
A rev-limiter cannot stop over-revving due to down-shifting at too high a speed.
Well spotted
I can only speak for a JTD but when mine had some work done recently the over rev counter still stood at zero.
Considering I drive mine quite enthusiastically then I was actually rather surprised by this. Not certain but I believe dates are also logged.
On that basis, I'd expect an engine is likely to be in a very poor state indeed on a count of only 16 let alone 256
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Meh close enough. The point was that every time Fiat have used it as a reason to avoid paying out it has been the same number.
As already pointed out by ducasi that simply means the engine has been over-revved so many times that the counter has lost track. It would translate to extreme abuse
What would be significant is if they never reject (or at least warn about) engines in the range of say 50-100 or 100-200 times etc. This would be statistically significant and might indicate a software glitch exists :chin:
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I know it translates to extreme abuse but its dodgy that its the same amount on all the cases of boxes going for refusal under warrenty work. If there was some variation in the amount of over revs then it wouldnt be so suspicious.
Pretty easy I'd think - although it would be a pretty dumb thing to do - and I certainly haven't got any intention of giving a demo
I'm not even convinced there's a direct correlation between the rev limiter and the over rev counter. Perhaps you also need to hold it for a few seconds before the counter trips :chin: I've done a few 40 - 80 timings in 3rd which does take you some way into the red - but as said abuse counter is still on zero
Why is it a "get out" if the engine has obviously been abused
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But it hasnt that is what we are saying. Fiat use it on every claim that has popped up on here. Do you not think that is even slightly suspicious that its the same for every box that goes?
Thought I had
..but you have to remember that Fiat might have a policy of ONLY rejecting claims in which the counter has reached it's limit (255 in decimal binary). Obviously, you'd expect them to be able to report counts recorded from 1 to 244 as well. If they couldn't then I certainly agree it would be suspicious.
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I keep getting confused with what im reading lol.
what suspicous is that all the ones seems to have been over revved 255 times- which suggests that they are hitting the limiter practically once a day!
I seriously doubt that everyone with rejected warranty claims has over revved their car 255 times (well possibly more if the ECU stops counting).
What we do need to find out is if FIAT are rejecting claims where the ecu has logged less than 255 over revs...
I seriously doubt that everyone with rejected warranty claims has over revved their car 255 times (well possibly more if the ECU stops counting).
What we do need to find out is if FIAT are rejecting claims where the ecu has logged less than 255 over revs...
Exactly so
It seems like a totally cop out on Fiats behalf as other manufacturers do not use an 'over-rev' counter to get out of warranty claims - which could be partly to do with the reason of them being bottom table when it comes to overall customer experience.
It might also help to find out what kinds of repairs are being rejected - are they just powertrain faults or drivetrain etc also ? How about copy and paste from people who have had rejected claims based on the 'over-rev' counter and what fault they had with the vehicle ?
It might also help to find out what kinds of repairs are being rejected - are they just powertrain faults or drivetrain etc also ? How about copy and paste from people who have had rejected claims based on the 'over-rev' counter and what fault they had with the vehicle ?
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er...
It's not hard to hit it, it's not hard to go over it. I've dropped into 3rd once instead of 5th coming down from 6th and almost over-reved but as the clutch started to bite I noticed quick enough and engaged the cluch back in fast enough to prevent an over-rev.
This was the idea when I started the thread.
In the particular case I have started digging a bit deeper. It is claimed that the car had 3 over revs of 1800 milliseconds at 6500rpm on a Diesel. Also it emerged (much later although they knew it) that the rpm sensor had a fault. Still warranty warranty is refused.
Next step is hitting hard. But would help to get more cases together and it will go to the relevant authorities.
As said by HC diesel smoke test would need to go full throttle so would that cause over rev log entry ?
