Remember Sergio saying Fiat needed a partner??
http://uk.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUKTRE50J2BM20090120?symbol=FIA.MI
http://uk.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUKTRE50J2BM20090120?symbol=FIA.MI
Chrysler
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Chrysler
raton_laveur
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WTF???
Click on the link and read down to the end of the story. Below that you'll find some other links. One of those says that Fiat has already agreed to doing this! OK, it's no money out of Fiat's pocket, but Chrysler is considered to be by far the worst off of the US Big Three and may go under this year. Is Fiat looking to pick up the remains on the cheap or something?
It's easy to see what Chrysler will get from this deal, what what will Fiat get in return? A US dealer network that's way overbuilt? Local manufacture for Alfa (Chrysler has been advertising that it has the ability to do contract manufacturing for other automotive firms)? Chrysler's quality levels are pretty much at the bottom of the table and their cars aren't selling that well at home. Fiat certainly does not need hippopotamus-sized pickups and SUVs in its model range. I'm not aware that Chrysler has a RWD sedan (saloon) platform that Fiat can use for anything, so what gives?
I just don't get it.
Click on the link and read down to the end of the story. Below that you'll find some other links. One of those says that Fiat has already agreed to doing this! OK, it's no money out of Fiat's pocket, but Chrysler is considered to be by far the worst off of the US Big Three and may go under this year. Is Fiat looking to pick up the remains on the cheap or something?
It's easy to see what Chrysler will get from this deal, what what will Fiat get in return? A US dealer network that's way overbuilt? Local manufacture for Alfa (Chrysler has been advertising that it has the ability to do contract manufacturing for other automotive firms)? Chrysler's quality levels are pretty much at the bottom of the table and their cars aren't selling that well at home. Fiat certainly does not need hippopotamus-sized pickups and SUVs in its model range. I'm not aware that Chrysler has a RWD sedan (saloon) platform that Fiat can use for anything, so what gives?
I just don't get it.
i think the Fiats main idea is getting their own models into the US
the fiat 500 alone could be a massive seller for them
the fiat 500 alone could be a massive seller for them
Another take...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7839542.stm
Joining with a US car firm... hasn't Obama basically said he won't let the big 3 go to the wall a bit like the UK banks? Would be a great way to re-launch the Fiat brand. The Americans are feeling the pinch on fuel, I could see a lot of demand with unstable oil prices for the little Tjets and multijets.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7839542.stm
Joining with a US car firm... hasn't Obama basically said he won't let the big 3 go to the wall a bit like the UK banks? Would be a great way to re-launch the Fiat brand. The Americans are feeling the pinch on fuel, I could see a lot of demand with unstable oil prices for the little Tjets and multijets.
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Let your imagination run riot, on what this could produce, just for fun.
How about a Punto with a Dodge V8 under the bonnet!
Any other ridiculous hybrid ideas?
How about a Punto with a Dodge V8 under the bonnet!
Any other ridiculous hybrid ideas?
The Wall Street Journal is talking about 'Take Overs' with upping the 35% to 55% stakes...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123238519459294991.html
What the hell am I going to take to the Fiat FreakOut in the US now?
They'll all have 500's soon!
Jim
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123238519459294991.html
What the hell am I going to take to the Fiat FreakOut in the US now?
They'll all have 500's soon!
Jim
The Multipla... they'll never have seen something as ugly as that before...
oh wait... SUVs
oh wait... SUVs
Think about this for a moment. Fiat have got a 35% stake in Chrysler for what? No capital has been invested and I somehow doubt Chryler is going to be stealing sales from Fiat in the European market. Chrysler now has Fiat platforms to use in North America which will be attractive as well as a crapload of manufacturing capacity. Chrysler is also state backed so they're not going to go under. Think of it like putting your money into Northern Rock.
This is a faaaaaaar better proposition than the Peugeot rumours as Chrysler and Fiat won't be taking each other head on in their home markets with similar products. I did say that would never happen and I'm right
This is a faaaaaaar better proposition than the Peugeot rumours as Chrysler and Fiat won't be taking each other head on in their home markets with similar products. I did say that would never happen and I'm right
Think about this for a moment. Fiat have got a 35% stake in Chrysler for what? No capital has been invested and I somehow doubt Chryler is going to be stealing sales from Fiat in the European market. Chrysler now has Fiat platforms to use in North America which will be attractive as well as a crapload of manufacturing capacity. Chrysler is also state backed so they're not going to go under. Think of it like putting your money into Northern Rock.
This is a faaaaaaar better proposition than the Peugeot rumours as Chrysler and Fiat won't be taking each other head on in their home markets with similar products. I did say that would never happen and I'm right
That's what I said... sort of
Which is why I suggested it
Sorry...
But imagine a big chrysler spun off a maser platform? Or RWD alfas and lancias with USA twins that will make it much more economic to build
It's not just fiat here as they tend to stay in the small car market and as a load of websites have said there's very little money in that
Jim
Sorry...
But imagine a big chrysler spun off a maser platform? Or RWD alfas and lancias with USA twins that will make it much more economic to build
It's not just fiat here as they tend to stay in the small car market and as a load of websites have said there's very little money in that
Jim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_TC_by_Maserati
Been there, done that...
Chrysler desperately needs lots of things that Fiat have. Fiat don't need Chrysler as much, but they now have access to a large dealer network in the US, and a big customer for their engines and other technologies.
It's now up to Chrysler to use the resources that they now have available to them to turn themselves around.
Fiat really have nothing to lose from the deal, and much to gain...
It's now up to Chrysler to use the resources that they now have available to them to turn themselves around.
Fiat really have nothing to lose from the deal, and much to gain...
Sorry...
But imagine a big chrysler spun off a maser platform? Or RWD alfas and lancias with USA twins that will make it much more economic to build
It's not just fiat here as they tend to stay in the small car market and as a load of websites have said there's very little money in that
Jim
The big money in the US will be in small cars in the future.
exactly,and theres a lot of people to sell to in the US!!!
Yup..... and to think people were thinking a tie up with Peugeot was a viable option.
https://www.fiatforum.com/lets-talk-fiat/173074-peugeot-citroen-fiat-merger.html
Methinks Obama giving more money to Chrysler if and when they need it will be a condition of this merger. Sure there's little risk for Fiat but it'll all be for nothing if Chrysler goes under which Obama won't allow anyway.
Only time will tell if this is a good move like GM taking over Holden in Australia or Vauxhall and Opel in Europe or more of a Chrysler/Mercedes venture. I'm optimistic that it'll work but only time will tell.
Wow Fiat buy 35% of Chrysler a company that makes even less cars than Fiat do and have a portfolio of cars that are very poor.
Mercedes couldn't wait to get rid of there Chrysler tie up and now Fiat come along.
As quoted from Wall Street Journal
"In an attempt to revive two of the world's storied auto makers, Italy's Fiat SpA and Chrysler LLC are poised to announce a partnership as soon as today in which Fiat could take control of the U.S. company's operations, people familiar with the matter said.
Under terms of a pact that is being hammered out, Fiat is likely to take a 35% stake in Chrysler by the middle of this year. It would have the option of increasing that to as much as 55%, these people said.
Fiat, the stronger of the two, wouldn't immediately put cash into Chrysler. Instead it would obtain its stake mainly in exchange for covering the cost of retooling a Chrysler plant to produce one or more Fiat models to be sold in the U.S., these people said. Fiat would also provide engine and transmission technology to help Chrysler introduce new, fuel-efficient small cars, they said.
The deal is the latest maneuver by Fiat's chief, Sergio Marchionne, who has pulled the Italian company back from the brink collapse since taking over in 2004.
The partnership would provide each company with economies of scale and geographical reach at a time when both are struggling to compete with larger and more global rivals like Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen AG and the alliance of Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co.
Chrysler last year sold two million cars and trucks world-wide, with almost all of its sales in North America. Fiat sold 2.5 million vehicles and is heavily dependent on Europe -- particularly its home market in Italy.
While Fiat has a wider global reach than Chrysler, the two auto makers are smaller players compared to their global rivals. Toyota and General Motors, for instance, each have sold more than nine million vehicles annually.
Chrysler spokeswoman Lori McTavish said, "In today's economic environment, talks are going on between companies in all industries -- ours is no different."
Fiat Vice Chairman John Elkann on Tuesday confirmed the talks with Chrysler. "It's not a mystery that we are talking to Chrysler," he said, without adding further details.
The pact with Fiat could give Chrysler a stronger case as it seeks more loans from the U.S. government. Chrysler nearly ran out of money late last year, before the Treasury Department provided $4 billion in emergency loans, and has suffered a steep drop in sales in the past three months. The auto maker needs to show it can remain a viable business by March to keep those loans and to qualify for the $3 billion in additional government aid it says it needs.
Last week, a vocal critic of Chrysler, Sen. Bob Corker (R., Tenn.) said the company needs to "merge or go away." A Chrysler official declined to comment on Sen. Corker's remark.
Kimberly Rodriquez, an automotive consultant at Detroit-based advisory firm Grant Thornton, said Chrysler has little choice but to find an alliance. "Without further funding, they don't survive with the level of sales and cash they have right now," she said in a telephone interview.
Working with Fiat could complicate a separate partnership Chrysler arranged last year with Nissan. Chrysler is supposed to start making pickup trucks in a few years that Nissan would sell in the U.S., and Nissan has agreed to make compact cars for Chrysler -- vehicles that potentially could compete with any small cars Fiat provides to Chrysler.
Chrysler and Nissan have discussed joining in a broader alliance, and top executives of the two companies spoke as recently as last week, a person familiar with the matter said. But Carlos Ghosn, chief executive of Nissan and Renault, is wary of any deal that would require Nissan to put money into Chrysler, a person familiar with Mr. Ghosn's thinking said.
A Nissan spokesman said the company intends to maintain its supply relationship with Chrysler "in the same spirit we do with the many other automakers we have similar arrangements with."
The tentative terms Fiat and Chrysler have worked out would call for Chrysler's owners, Cerberus Capital Management LP and Daimler AG, to retain stakes in the U.S. car maker, people familiar with the discussions said. Cerberus will see its 80.1% stake diluted. It is unclear whether Daimler will want to keep its entire 19.9% stake.
A Daimler spokesman said he couldn't immediately comment on the matter.
News of the partnership was previously reported by Automotive News, a trade publication.
The potential alliance will need the blessing of Fiat's founding family, the Agnellis. The family, which holds a 30% controlling stake in Fiat, has said in the past that to stay competitive, Fiat needed to link up with a larger rival.
Fiat's board is likely to discuss the potential deal with Chrysler when it meets Thursday to approve third-quarter results, one person familiar with the matter said.
The Fiat deal would effectively end an attempt by Cerberus to resurrect the troubled U.S. auto maker that began in 2007. Chrysler merged with Daimler in 1998 to form DaimlerChrysler AG, but the marriage ended in part amid concerns that the U.S. arm was a drag on earnings.
Cerberus snapped up Chrysler with the promise it could speed product development and other decisions thanks to its status as a private company. To come up with cash to fund its ambitions, Cerberus had Chrysler mortgage almost all of its plants and other assets to raise $12 billion in loans from a group of banks led by J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.
Then, in the spring of 2008, gasoline prices soared to $4 a gallon and sales of Chrysler's most profitable trucks and SUVs plunged.
Scrambling to save cash, Chrysler slowed development of new vehicles. At the North American International Auto Show, which opened last week in Detroit, Chrysler didn't show a single vehicle that will be launched in 2009.
Chrysler's troubles worsened last fall when the meltdown on Wall Street hit. In the second half of 2008, the company used up $10 billion in cash, forcing it to seek help from the U.S. government. As part of the deal with Fiat, Chrysler is supposed to restructure the $9 billion in debt it still has on its books, people familiar with the matter said.
While the private-equity firm and its investors likely will lose billions on the Chrysler deal, Cerberus would possibly face an even bigger hit if forced to put Chrysler in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection or continue running the auto maker amid the deep slump in the U.S. auto industry.
It is Cerberus's latest investment to be crushed by the auto-industry slowdown. In 2006, Cerberus paid billions for a controlling stake in GMAC LLC, the finance arm for GM. But Cerberus eventually had to agree to unload much of its stake in order to receive a bailout for the troubled lender late last year.
Fiat is also facing challenges. Analysts have long doubted whether it has the scale to survive as an independent manufacturer of small cars. Small vehicles have relatively thin profit margins.
Fiat has for months been exploring ways to gain a foothold in North America, hunting for a partner that could manufacture its Fiat 500 mini model and re-launch its high-end Alfa Romeo brand in the U.S.
Most analysts say Chrysler has little hope of surviving as a standalone company. Amid a rash of mergers in recent decades, and the rise of well-funded newcomers in China and India, the auto industry is dominated by multinational players that can quickly move production and engineering from region to region.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123238519459294991.html
Mercedes couldn't wait to get rid of there Chrysler tie up and now Fiat come along.
As quoted from Wall Street Journal
"In an attempt to revive two of the world's storied auto makers, Italy's Fiat SpA and Chrysler LLC are poised to announce a partnership as soon as today in which Fiat could take control of the U.S. company's operations, people familiar with the matter said.
Under terms of a pact that is being hammered out, Fiat is likely to take a 35% stake in Chrysler by the middle of this year. It would have the option of increasing that to as much as 55%, these people said.
Fiat, the stronger of the two, wouldn't immediately put cash into Chrysler. Instead it would obtain its stake mainly in exchange for covering the cost of retooling a Chrysler plant to produce one or more Fiat models to be sold in the U.S., these people said. Fiat would also provide engine and transmission technology to help Chrysler introduce new, fuel-efficient small cars, they said.
The deal is the latest maneuver by Fiat's chief, Sergio Marchionne, who has pulled the Italian company back from the brink collapse since taking over in 2004.
The partnership would provide each company with economies of scale and geographical reach at a time when both are struggling to compete with larger and more global rivals like Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen AG and the alliance of Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co.
Chrysler last year sold two million cars and trucks world-wide, with almost all of its sales in North America. Fiat sold 2.5 million vehicles and is heavily dependent on Europe -- particularly its home market in Italy.
While Fiat has a wider global reach than Chrysler, the two auto makers are smaller players compared to their global rivals. Toyota and General Motors, for instance, each have sold more than nine million vehicles annually.
Chrysler spokeswoman Lori McTavish said, "In today's economic environment, talks are going on between companies in all industries -- ours is no different."
Fiat Vice Chairman John Elkann on Tuesday confirmed the talks with Chrysler. "It's not a mystery that we are talking to Chrysler," he said, without adding further details.
The pact with Fiat could give Chrysler a stronger case as it seeks more loans from the U.S. government. Chrysler nearly ran out of money late last year, before the Treasury Department provided $4 billion in emergency loans, and has suffered a steep drop in sales in the past three months. The auto maker needs to show it can remain a viable business by March to keep those loans and to qualify for the $3 billion in additional government aid it says it needs.
Last week, a vocal critic of Chrysler, Sen. Bob Corker (R., Tenn.) said the company needs to "merge or go away." A Chrysler official declined to comment on Sen. Corker's remark.
Kimberly Rodriquez, an automotive consultant at Detroit-based advisory firm Grant Thornton, said Chrysler has little choice but to find an alliance. "Without further funding, they don't survive with the level of sales and cash they have right now," she said in a telephone interview.
Working with Fiat could complicate a separate partnership Chrysler arranged last year with Nissan. Chrysler is supposed to start making pickup trucks in a few years that Nissan would sell in the U.S., and Nissan has agreed to make compact cars for Chrysler -- vehicles that potentially could compete with any small cars Fiat provides to Chrysler.
Chrysler and Nissan have discussed joining in a broader alliance, and top executives of the two companies spoke as recently as last week, a person familiar with the matter said. But Carlos Ghosn, chief executive of Nissan and Renault, is wary of any deal that would require Nissan to put money into Chrysler, a person familiar with Mr. Ghosn's thinking said.
A Nissan spokesman said the company intends to maintain its supply relationship with Chrysler "in the same spirit we do with the many other automakers we have similar arrangements with."
The tentative terms Fiat and Chrysler have worked out would call for Chrysler's owners, Cerberus Capital Management LP and Daimler AG, to retain stakes in the U.S. car maker, people familiar with the discussions said. Cerberus will see its 80.1% stake diluted. It is unclear whether Daimler will want to keep its entire 19.9% stake.
A Daimler spokesman said he couldn't immediately comment on the matter.
News of the partnership was previously reported by Automotive News, a trade publication.
The potential alliance will need the blessing of Fiat's founding family, the Agnellis. The family, which holds a 30% controlling stake in Fiat, has said in the past that to stay competitive, Fiat needed to link up with a larger rival.
Fiat's board is likely to discuss the potential deal with Chrysler when it meets Thursday to approve third-quarter results, one person familiar with the matter said.
The Fiat deal would effectively end an attempt by Cerberus to resurrect the troubled U.S. auto maker that began in 2007. Chrysler merged with Daimler in 1998 to form DaimlerChrysler AG, but the marriage ended in part amid concerns that the U.S. arm was a drag on earnings.
Cerberus snapped up Chrysler with the promise it could speed product development and other decisions thanks to its status as a private company. To come up with cash to fund its ambitions, Cerberus had Chrysler mortgage almost all of its plants and other assets to raise $12 billion in loans from a group of banks led by J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.
Then, in the spring of 2008, gasoline prices soared to $4 a gallon and sales of Chrysler's most profitable trucks and SUVs plunged.
Scrambling to save cash, Chrysler slowed development of new vehicles. At the North American International Auto Show, which opened last week in Detroit, Chrysler didn't show a single vehicle that will be launched in 2009.
Chrysler's troubles worsened last fall when the meltdown on Wall Street hit. In the second half of 2008, the company used up $10 billion in cash, forcing it to seek help from the U.S. government. As part of the deal with Fiat, Chrysler is supposed to restructure the $9 billion in debt it still has on its books, people familiar with the matter said.
While the private-equity firm and its investors likely will lose billions on the Chrysler deal, Cerberus would possibly face an even bigger hit if forced to put Chrysler in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection or continue running the auto maker amid the deep slump in the U.S. auto industry.
It is Cerberus's latest investment to be crushed by the auto-industry slowdown. In 2006, Cerberus paid billions for a controlling stake in GMAC LLC, the finance arm for GM. But Cerberus eventually had to agree to unload much of its stake in order to receive a bailout for the troubled lender late last year.
Fiat is also facing challenges. Analysts have long doubted whether it has the scale to survive as an independent manufacturer of small cars. Small vehicles have relatively thin profit margins.
Fiat has for months been exploring ways to gain a foothold in North America, hunting for a partner that could manufacture its Fiat 500 mini model and re-launch its high-end Alfa Romeo brand in the U.S.
Most analysts say Chrysler has little hope of surviving as a standalone company. Amid a rash of mergers in recent decades, and the rise of well-funded newcomers in China and India, the auto industry is dominated by multinational players that can quickly move production and engineering from region to region.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123238519459294991.html
LOL you got it wrong on the other thread and you've got it wrong here. From what I can see Fiat are not paying anything for the share in Chrysler. This is pretty much a deal with no risk for Fiat.
Just remember this is a company which will be backed almost to the death by the US government. Chrysler would not have gone down even if Fiat didn't do this deal. You were so wrong when you said a merger with Peugeot made sense and you're so wrong when you present this deal in a negative light.
