JD power are now publishing the 2008 car surveys. Fiat and Kia are joint last with the only manufacturers awarded 1 star out of 5. The usual Honda, Mercedes come top.

Well, I can certainly relate to this with some things that have happened to me this year. But, apart from all the interior rattles, I still beleive I own a pretty good car for the money. Probably won't be buying another Fiat though!

The cars fantastic, some dealers let FIAT down though.

Is that survey on the manufacture? Or the dealerships?

Pomp said:

The cars fantastic, some dealers let FIAT down though.

Is that survey on the manufacture? Or the dealerships?

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Dealerships....I've found that my Grande Punto has been almost 100% reliable and great to drive! Unfortunately it's these results that effect the overall image of Fiat and I feel that the brand is 'still' perceived by many as rubbish. I certainly feel this when having conversations with work mates and general car conversations with non-fiat-owners.

I'm very unhappy with all of the interior trim rattles (only 1 year old!?) and my original/previous dealer s**t on me from a great height. In 6-12 months time I'll be looking to upgrade the car and it won't be a Fiat.

alfa dealers are just fiat dealers with higher prices, they should be last, then fiat second last.

the stupid thing is that the franchiser has more of an impact than the manufacturer. one fiat dealer can be crap, the next amazing. its stupid having a survey by manufacturer, it should be by franchise.

for example reg vardy are good no matter which brand they operate, and GMD are utter crap even when you give them a subaru dealership.

Don't get me started on Evans Halshaw...

Hellcat said:

Don't get me started on Evans Halshaw...

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everywhere i go in this country i see an evans halshaw branch. they seem to sell every brand going.

a few weeks ago in hull i was lost trying to find the company that make my boiler and i was dying for a wee so i asked satnav to take me to a mcdonalds. when i got there it was an evans halshaw vauxhall dealership! (note to self; must update POI's)
i'd only had the astra a couple of weeks so i went in and asked for a quote for mudflaps and headlight protectors (£170!!) then i asked if i could use the toilet. they said no, so i did it in the carpark. muhaha :devil:

Thing is they have been bottom now for nigh on ten years, and just dont seem to improve ever. Despite big talk from senior Fiat managment the dealers are still letting them down as a brand. When Alfa brought the 156 out loads of owners of BMWs etc bought a 156, found the dealers to be awful and didnt buy again... look what its done for Alfa!

The new influx of 500 owners will probably do the same in three years if they get the poor treatment from the dealers. Myself, Ive suffered horrendous treatment from various dealers but I still buy Fiat cos nothing else compares for fun

In defence of dealers, I dont think Fiat themselves make it easy re parts availability

Mercedes DONT actually get a high rating, unless they have seriously turned stuff around from the last JDP survey, Merc Customers were extremely disatisfied with Dealer attitudes and poor reliability / Service agent quality. I guess that may be skewed as the buyers would expect Top Quality service for an upmarket brand.

Skoda were rated highest last time IIRC?

FIAT have an attitude problem towards their franchised Dealers, they are finding it very difficult to dump the bunch of crap places and enrol new, better quality franchises in the same geographic locations. Servicing costs contribute to this, both the level of costs for a cheap car and the inconsistency of charging, you never know what your going to get charged between franchises. Skoda score very well here in comparison, wether real or perceived it is being sold well to the buying public.

jug said:

everywhere i go in this country i see an evans halshaw branch. they seem to sell every brand going.

a few weeks ago in hull i was lost trying to find the company that make my boiler and i was dying for a wee so i asked satnav to take me to a mcdonalds. when i got there it was an evans halshaw vauxhall dealership! (note to self; must update POI's)
i'd only had the astra a couple of weeks so i went in and asked for a quote for mudflaps and headlight protectors (£170!!) then i asked if i could use the toilet. they said no, so i did it in the carpark. muhaha :devil:

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I'd have done it in a show car.. possibly a Zafira since p*ss nd s*** go together

I think many people are under the illussion Fiat give a **** how they score in theses surveys.
Igor the head of Fiat UK has said he wants to increase the amount of dealers in the UK. I forget to how many but it was no small increase. How is he at the same time supposed to weed out the worst dealers while still encouraging new franchises to open up.


The incentives to open a Fiat garage are non existant. There is very little profit per unit compared to other marques. Parts availability as already said is horrendous. I had one guy waiting 3 months for a glovebox for a MK2B Punto.
Then theres still the public perception of dodgey Italian motors, that either rust away or break down. Then theres still the questionable build quality of some models. I won't say which ones or I'll just get abuse of the GP lot.


So why would they close the bad dealers down. when they are trying to expand but can't get new franchises?

Should just look at these surveys the way I do. They are not worth the effort put into them. Surveys by there very nature are opinion. Opinion counts for nothing. If your happy with your dealer good for you. If your not well you can either put up with it, commit suicide and leave a letter blaming them in the hope it puts them on the strsight and narrow. Or find another dealer elsewhere.

don't use the bad ones and the problem fixes itself without Fiats or JDs help.

Good Post Beast.

The Beast said:

I think many people are under the illussion Fiat give a **** how they score in theses surveys.
Igor the head of Fiat UK has said he wants to increase the amount of dealers in the UK. I forget to how many but it was no small increase. How is he at the same time supposed to weed out the worst dealers while still encouraging new franchises to open up.


The incentives to open a Fiat garage are non existant. There is very little profit per unit compared to other marques. Parts availability as already said is horrendous. I had one guy waiting 3 months for a glovebox for a MK2B Punto.
Then theres still the public perception of dodgey Italian motors, that either rust away or break down. Then theres still the questionable build quality of some models. I won't say which ones or I'll just get abuse of the GP lot.


So why would they close the bad dealers down. when they are trying to expand but can't get new franchises?

Should just look at these surveys the way I do. They are not worth the effort put into them. Surveys by there very nature are opinion. Opinion counts for nothing. If your happy with your dealer good for you. If your not well you can either put up with it, commit suicide and leave a letter blaming them in the hope it puts them on the strsight and narrow. Or find another dealer elsewhere.

don't use the bad ones and the problem fixes itself without Fiats or JDs help.

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I agree with some of what you're saying Beast and I have indeed changed from a particularly bad dealer/garage to a good one. It's ridiculous however to refer the Grande Punto as the soul provider to Fiats poor survey results. You need only use this very forum to see that the 500, Bravo and anything else stamped with the Fiat mark contributes to many niggles, engine problems and above average complaints. No one has bought the Bravo as it's nowhere near as good as others in the toughest class to crack and the 500 sales have disappointed every single Fiat salesman on the packed forecourts. The GP however is the 'largest' seller in it's class across Europe and is the only model that regularly brings in 4 out of 5 star ratings from the car journo's making this the company's outright blessing in disguise thus far. Also the JD Power surveys aren't based on opinion...they're based on owners experiences unfortunate experiences throughout the country. Car manufacturers sell products and those should be of unifrom quality and meet the customers requirements on as many levels as possible....sadly Fiat have clearly had one last chance and failed to do this.

Having said that I absolutely love my GP Mjet Sporting...It's a bl**dy excellent car and every time i drive it I enjoy it which is a first. The thing that does bugs me though is the poor interior build quality and the fact that 90% of other car drivers on the road have no respect for what I'm driving! Vanity? well yes....but most people, if they're honest, buy products to supplement their lives positively.

Well I'll just have to go with what I have seen with my own eyes then.

the table is wrong its upside down.......fiat are on top



























Just had this really weird dream..............

who they ask for these surveys? people with new cars? if so its un fair as a lot more owner drivers buy fiats so get more fed up when niggles come up, where as a fleet driver company car driver will forget about them as its not their money they spent on the car

PEZZ175 said:

No one has bought the Bravo as it's nowhere near as good as others in the toughest class to crack and the 500 sales have disappointed every single Fiat salesman on the packed forecourts.

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You mean all them owners in the Bravo section are actually figments of my imagination?

I've had probably worst run of troubles in the Bravo section - hardly suprising given mine was one of the first RHD multijet sports into the country. Still not serious issues and now after a year and 23,000 miles the Bravo hasn't given up on me once. It's just eat up nearly 3000 miles in the space of 2 weeks. Nobody at work has any better reliability. BMWs, Audis, Pugs, Fords.. All have had some issues over the last 2 years I've been in this office. Many of them having to be recovered as they actually broke down. I've not heard of a bravo letting someone down.

As for it not being as good as others in the class? How so? More style than the whole family car segment put together. Performance or ecconomy to rival any apart from the Focus ST or the VXR - but the Bravo isn't supposed to be an ST or VXR - that's the segment that Alfa sell to with a Brera/159 3.2 V6. Practically it's boot is as big as they get in that class. Interior gadgets - everything the competition have PLUS blue and me.

So that leaves what? Price? Hmmm think you'll find like for like they're cheaper. Insurance/tax? Fun to drive? Beats any boring golf or astra, they just don't excite.

So then, why don't the public buy them? Cause most of the public are FKIN stupid. "Caution, contents may be hot" on a coffe cup? "may contain nuts" on a pack of peanuts..

Stick a VW badge on a UK train and it'll be hailed as the most reliable thing since time. etc etc etc

dave said:

who they ask for these surveys? people with new cars? if so its un fair as a lot more owner drivers buy fiats so get more fed up when niggles come up, where as a fleet driver company car driver will forget about them as its not their money they spent on the car

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Dave it don't matter who they ask. It's just opinion. Most people who fill in surveys just do it so they have something to do in their empty afternoon. Public opinion is not a resource that should be used to come to resolutions over.

My sister is of the opinion her car is more reliable than mines.

She got a 54reg BMW X5. She spent more on repairs for it than me the first year she had it 2006. She spent more again the next year. So far this year it's cost her 3 grand which again is slightly more than I have. Yet my car is the one that is going to break down all the time aparently.

dave said:

who they ask for these surveys? people with new cars? if so its un fair

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its even more unfair than that, anyone can enter as many times as they want. its easy to rig the votes.

as a forum i bet we could get fiat in the top5, if all the active members did 5 survey's each we could compete with the honda cheats. that is why honda will always do well, the honda fanboys rig the votes (as they do in several surveys). its well known about, but no one can stop it.

if honda owners love honda enough to do that then honda must be special.

if loads of fiat owners hate fiat enough to bother completing the survey negatively then there must be an issue with fiat, that much must be true.

Disagree about the 500 having above average problems, for a brand new model it has very few faults at all. Most in the 500 section are really happy with theirs and likewise the Panda is the most reliable small car on sale. I dont think the 500 is selling as well as Fiat hoped, although the order books are healthy now this credit issue is here things have slowed up a lot.

Dont know much about the GP, but my wifes son and his GF have one each and really rate them. Re Mercedes, her other son has one and hes been getting awful treatment from them. His car had major paint issues so they repainted it and it promptly fell off!!! Its back in and they have given him a brand new loan car as opposed to his ex demo. They cant get the paint right and want him to take his car back and hes refused, saying he wants a refund and they arent getting their new Merc back till he does

nuovapanda said:

Disagree about the 500 having above average problems, for a brand new model it has very few faults at all.

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Exactly, to be honest it really has no common faults.