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Old 04-06-2019   #31
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
I'm trying to catch up with this thread, haven't been here for a while. This is the engine with the vvt cam pulley isn't it? If so then I would guess something like a broken cam belt in the past. The broken bits of guide are quite typical of damage transmitted when a valve is hit by a piston and the "new" valve in No3 seems to point in this direction too.

Having a general look round inside the cylinders with your camera might be interesting especially the top of the pistons as the valves will have left marks if it was bad enough to need a valve changed or break that guide.

So i met up with @rado, we used the camera through the spark plugs.
The quality of the camera is really bad.
- we could not see anything obviously bad.
- if anything it looked quite good.
- we could see all the valves, no missing chunks.
- the pistons were a bit dirty(normal junk from a cold start a few km away), but had no visible signs of being hit (still possible.. but we couldn't see it)
- the cylinder walls had no visible scratches,
-crosshatch was looking good.

We had a bit of doubt in one of the cylinders, we thought we were seeing scratches, but in really it was only the camera's light reflecting (we could make out, that the "scratches" we were seeing would move over the crosshatches in the cylinder as we moved the camera.. so we were seeing light NOT scratches)

The compression tester didn't quite work out to get good consistent readings.
It was the type you press on to the spark plug hole... and the rubber seal would some times slide over the metal tube . We didn't have the right adapter to screw into the hole.

We repeated the measurement a few times for each cylinder... they were roughly around 200psi... when the gauge kept the max reading it was between ~195psi to ~210psi.... that's not difference between cylinders but difference in readings, on the same cylinder. (we also got a quite a few readings where the gauge didn't hold the max pressure.. those got anywhere between 90-170 psi )

There was variation in readings... even on the same cylinder, so i'm putting that on the gauge and the person holding the gauge (me )

There was a bit more blow-by than my 230k km t-jet.
So something isn't quite right there ... could simply be stuck rigs in the pistons because the lack or regular oil changes the engine went through.


A leak down test would tell more.
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Old 04-06-2019   #32
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Quote Originally Posted by aurick86 View Post
So i met up with @rado, we used the camera through the spark plugs.
The quality of the camera is really bad.
- we could not see anything obviously bad.
- if anything it looked quite good.
- we could see all the valves, no missing chunks.
- the pistons were a bit dirty(normal junk from a cold start a few km away), but had no visible signs of being hit (still possible.. but we couldn't see it)
- the cylinder walls had no visible scratches,
-crosshatch was looking good.

We had a bit of doubt in one of the cylinders, we thought we were seeing scratches, but in really it was only the camera's light reflecting (we could make out, that the "scratches" we were seeing would move over the crosshatches in the cylinder as we moved the camera.. so we were seeing light NOT scratches)

The compression tester didn't quite work out to get good consistent readings.
It was the type you press on to the spark plug hole... and the rubber seal would some times slide over the metal tube . We didn't have the right adapter to screw into the hole.

We repeated the measurement a few times for each cylinder... they were roughly around 200psi... when the gauge kept the max reading it was between ~195psi to ~210psi.... that's not difference between cylinders but difference in readings, on the same cylinder. (we also got a quite a few readings where the gauge didn't hold the max pressure.. those got anywhere between 90-170 psi )

There was variation in readings... even on the same cylinder, so i'm putting that on the gauge and the person holding the gauge (me )

There was a bit more blow-by than my 230k km t-jet.
So something isn't quite right there ... could simply be stuck rigs in the pistons because the lack or regular oil changes the engine went through.


A leak down test would tell more.
Compressions around 200psi per cylinder looks pretty good to me. For example, If you got that on maybe 3 cylinders but only say 50 or 70 psi on the other one then you would have something to worry about.

I'm puzzled by your statement that there is more "blow by" than on your t-jet. Blow by to me means compression leaking past the piston/s into the lower regions - crankcase/sump - of the engine. You seem to know about cylinder leak testing as you mention it in your last sentence and this would be the way to check for blow by but you haven't done this yet? so what makes you say blow by is a problem?

Wish I lived nearer you guys, I'd love to have a listen to this one. It's really fascinating me!

regards
Jock
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Old 04-06-2019   #33
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Hard to say about blow by, on my Fluence 1.6 is almost the same blow by pressure and engine is in 100% condition.
The main issue with compression testing was that compression tool has bigger ending that spark plug holes. Thats why we measured as we could. We measured max values 220, 210, 220 and 210 psi for cylinders, but tool sometimes couldnt hold max value and dropped back down to 170 for example...But Aurick saw max measured values. That was aldo cheapest tool to buy... but we agreed that compressions are ok and theres no need for wet test. Engine is starting really quick (its also S&S system which must start engine very quickly), so overal I think that compression is ok.
One guy on YouTube commented one of my videos - he has the same ticking problem. He replaced whole cyljnder head, but ticking is still there... but I'm still playing with my thought about thick oil, becausecas I mentioned before - there was no hot ticking when we bought this car and there was old thick oil...
And also oil filter - since I have this car, I used 2 times oil filter BOSCH P2041 (EAN code: 3165141830484) with specifications:
Opening pressure of back valve - 0.12 bar
Opening pressure of circulating valve - 1 bar
I don't know originial oil filter which FIAT mounts and it's specifications....can you guys explain this?
Web shows me some MAHLE OC521 as original with "Bypass Valve Opening Pressure - 1.3 bar", then "MAHLE OC196 with bypass 1.0 bar", another spare for example UFI with bypass 0.7 bar .... which is original please ? In ePER I see filter with PN : 55256470 but when I search for replacements, I see many filter from many brands, each with different bypass pressure value.... ???

Maybe I have to separate my hot ticking issues to two different things - one is that engine was overheated and someone did cylinder head component(s) replacement. But maybe ticking is completely different thing , because:
1, it was not there when I bought car (some oil filter...I dont remember it's name, some oil...)
2, ticking is rising with engine temperature
3, ticking is cycling - 16 x ticks, then 2 seconds silence...and over and over

So it must somehow depend on oil pressure or something like that....thats why I'm thinking about test with some thick oil, or to change my BOSCH oil filter to original one
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Last edited by Rado77; 04-06-2019 at 13:31.
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Old 04-06-2019   #34
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Compressions around 200psi per cylinder looks pretty good to me. .....

You seem to know about cylinder leak testing as you mention it in your last sentence and this would be the way to check for blow by but you haven't done this yet? .....

so what makes you say blow by is a problem?
Yes, compression is very good.

We didn't to a cylider leak down test .. because we don't have the tools or the space to work on cars

Blow by was easily observable at oil fill cap, could really feel the air pressure coming out of the oil fill. It didn't seem so much at first... the i started my t-jet, and it felt like it had less blow by (4*km.. and t-jet should be slightly looser).
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Old 04-06-2019   #35
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

isnt the ticking sound potentially the cams lifters?..maybe valves/shims needs adjusting.
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Old 04-06-2019   #36
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Car was in original service to check valve clearances - they said that it's ok (0.45 for ex, 0.35 for in)...I saw also paper where mechanic wrote those values. But ....can I really believe them? By stethosope, ticking is going from cylinder head somewhere in the middle and lower...I hear it most on exhaust manifold's body near cylinder head, louder on 2nd and 3rd cylinder. But not on valve cover.
I need to know which oil filter exactly is OK to use (especialy value of bypass pressure (Bar). I used this , is it ok?
http://www.olejcentrum.sk/BOSCH-Olej...1-d1451983.htm
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Old 04-06-2019   #37
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Camshaft bearings if the noise is cyclic? Just a thought.
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Old 04-06-2019   #38
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

No no, cycling is like: 4 times per second. And now - its 16x tick, then 2 seconds silence...and again 16x tick, then 2 seconds silence...and over and over. When engine temp is for example 70C, ticking starts. But when engine is not on operational temp, it starts ticking like 4 times tick, then 4 seconds silence and over and over. So its like....like some oil pressure or what....something is presurized with oil (ticking), buf once it reach some presure, it allow to move oil further and it stops to tick...and over again. Thats crazy. It's more than half year and I still didnt figure it out
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Last edited by Rado77; 04-06-2019 at 23:03.
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Old 04-06-2019   #39
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

That's a pattern, therefore cyclic.
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Old 05-06-2019   #40
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Quote Originally Posted by SRafferty View Post
That's a pattern, therefore cyclic.
Let's assume the ticks come from ONE cylinder...

- 4 clicks a second means 240 cycles per minute (engine)
- the same but from cams system means 480 engine cycles

Both are (way) too low even for an idling engine BUT could very well correspond to the pattern with which the ECU attempts to move the VVT.
And if I remember well the VVT angle doesn't move...? Thicker oil might had behaved differently (sound-wise) in the past so as the ticks weren't audible or simply not there!

I'd give it a try with a slightly thicker oil just to rule that out.

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)
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Old 05-06-2019   #41
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Thanks Bernie ;-) And also that oil filter - I mentioned that I'm using BOSCH P2041 (EAN code: 3165141830484) with specifications:
Opening pressure of bypass valve - 0.12 bar
Opening pressure of circulating valve - 1 bar
And here I'm not sure if it's ok....
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Old 05-06-2019   #42
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Quote Originally Posted by Rado77 View Post
Thanks Bernie ;-) And also that oil filter - I mentioned that I'm using BOSCH P2041 (EAN code: 3165141830484) with specifications:
Opening pressure of bypass valve - 0.12 bar
Opening pressure of circulating valve - 1 bar
And here I'm not sure if it's ok....
Just get the filter from FIAT. The one they sell.
You can usually buy specific OEM parts at the dealer
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Old 05-06-2019   #43
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Hi Aurick ;-) OK, dealer is fortunately nearby my work. But can you guys send me link on oil filter which you are using please? Just to compare valve Bars with my BOSCH...
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Last edited by Rado77; 05-06-2019 at 11:41.
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Old 05-06-2019   #44
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Thumbs down Re: Gasoline smell in oil

Months ago, you've got advises like:
- valve clearance check and adjustment (by yourself, not garage/workshop),
- timing (confirm, DIY),
- lubrication (oil pump, clogged galleries/channels, especially head and cover),
- VVT (maybe actuator wheel - camshaft sprocket/pulley - is trashed, or solenoid only).
Then OK, valves themselves, pistons, crankshaft and its bearings... Maybe something else.
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Old 06-06-2019   #45
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Re: Gasoline smell in oil

I know I know :-) But 1st I'm trying cheapest ways. Car is used daily by my wife. It's also starting/running well, so I decided only to monitor that ticking. It's not getting worse (more than half year) so I think it's nothing that could damage engine... It would be nice to solve it of course, but I decided only cheap methods for now (playing with different oil, different filter).
If things get worse, then I'll make full engine rebuild. That's why I asked for correct oil filter valve pressure (original service doesn't know...) :-)
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