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Technical Intermittent Power Steering Failure (2006)

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Technical Intermittent Power Steering Failure (2006)

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SKGrande

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Hello folks

My sisters 2006 Grande has an intermittent power steering fault in that it will fail suddenly without warning. I want to try and track this problem down but I don't know where to start. I used to drive this car in 2010 when it ~70k miles and it would fail very occasionally. 110k miles later it seems to be more common but not constant.

The engine has been replaced since I drove the car which might be related but on the other hand may not be. My sister mentioned that when this work was carried out the wiring was in some way incomplete or improperly replaced; the oil and engine management lights will flicker on occasionally. The bulb out warning light also seems to come and go.

With all of this considered, where should I start chasing faults? Are there any known Grande's with 200k miles?
 
SKGrande said:
Hello folks

My sisters 2006 Grande has an intermittent power steering fault in that it will fail suddenly without warning. I want to try and track this problem down but I don't know where to start. I used to drive this car in 2010 when it ~70k miles and it would fail very occasionally. 110k miles later it seems to be more common but not constant.

The engine has been replaced since I drove the car which might be related but on the other hand may not be. My sister mentioned that when this work was carried out the wiring was in some way incomplete or improperly replaced; the oil and engine management lights will flicker on occasionally. The bulb out warning light also seems to come and go.

With all of this considered, where should I start chasing faults? Are there any known Grande's with 200k miles?
Click to expand...

Hi,
with 200k on the clock the alternator may well need a hand.., :)

check for 14 volts at battery with engine running,;)
the PAS is VERY power hungry - so if down on electrical power it will flag up faults:eek:

Charlie - Oxford
 
Definitely worth the usual - "check all the electrical terminals/earth points" check in case it's just a poor connection
 
varesecrazy said:
Hi,
with 200k on the clock the alternator may well need a hand.., :)

check for 14 volts at battery with engine running,;)
the PAS is VERY power hungry - so if down on electrical power it will flag up faults:eek:

Charlie - Oxford
Click to expand...

DGPunto said:
Definitely worth the usual - "check all the electrical terminals/earth points" check in case it's just a poor connection
Click to expand...

Thanks guys, I'll be sure to start here when I can (she buggered off back to uni today!). Normally I'm not this ignorant towards cars but I've owned two carburettor fuelled Volkswagens and a 13 year old small Suzuki. Modern cars, pfft.

cmosfxx said:
What engine and what happened?
Click to expand...

1242cc and my dad happened. Sump had a crack, garage told him to change it, he thought it was fine, it split, oil dumps out, I asked how far he drove it and he said "about a mile or two". Idiot.
 
Go straight for the EPS torque sensor Connector, and give it a good workout with contact cleaner or best, Deoxit, moving it back and fourth (has a blue stopper that you have to remove.

Intermittent and going on for a long time points to the torque sensor.
If the EPS was giving less assistance to one side (more developed fault), this tip would be even better.


The eps torque sensor connector can affect the analogue voltage readings before they are turned digital and computed. I have fixed a meriva that uses the same brand EPS (DELPHI e-steer) and same torque sensor. My fix could apply to many FIAT models. If the eps gives less assistance in one direction + intermittent + works smoothly in other respects, then this can be a very cheap fix.


From thread Meriva EPS light


I belive that bringing the EPS back from fairy constant reduced left assistance proves that a sensor connection has been improved. The qlitches that it started with could be anything, but as they are also gone it must also have been related to the connector.

Connections I have fixed with deoxit:
1. Spotlight in kitchen fan/extractor (9 years old) intermittent connection - maybe 15 applications during 2 years. Due to constant humidity from cooking I expect it to fail again, and apply deoxit again.
2. Eps connector Meriva (12 years old)- First intermittent connection, then constant bad connection evry second day (more resistance/lower voltage read from left hand torque signal). Cause - bad quality/bad production connector as with the Hdmi connector ?
3. Hdmi connector TV (3 years old), intermittent connection for two years, one application and fixed.

Since fixing the connector I have read more about EPS systems and voltages, and feel more sure about what was wrong. I never managed to read related error codes, but voltages explains it all. Think about the steering as some kind of analog joystick (If it was, then 0.25v would be f.ex full left, 4.75V full right, 2.5V straight ahead. Bad connection would steeer you to the left. As it is set up the EPS will never steer you towards lower voltage.
It has two separate voltages as a safety measure.

The connector has 6 active pins (8 total, 2 empty) and 3 voltages.
Left hand (turns left when voltage is above 2.5 Volts, range 0.25 - 4.75 volts). When steering wheel is "squeezed" to the left this voltage increases, and the other decreases.
Right hand (turns right when voltage is above 2.5 Volts, range 0.25 - 4.75 volts)
Position (not sure about how it works).
If Left hand or right hand drops to 0 in a glitch, EPS is deactivated.
If left hand has a "neutral" voltage of f.ex 2.2 volts because of established, stable bad connection, turning to the left will be harder than to the right (you have to be above 2.5 volts for anything to happen, and you will never reach 4.75 volts).
Improve the connection with a good contact cleaner, f.ex deoxit, or just move the connector back and forth. Bad connection will degrade this connector very slowly because it is very low ampere, maybe 30-40 milliampere.
 
SKGrande said:
Thanks guys, I'll be sure to start here when I can (she buggered off back to uni today!). Normally I'm not this ignorant towards cars but I've owned two carburettor fuelled Volkswagens and a 13 year old small Suzuki. Modern cars, pfft.



1242cc and my dad happened. Sump had a crack, garage told him to change it, he thought it was fine, it split, oil dumps out, I asked how far he drove it and he said "about a mile or two". Idiot.
Click to expand...

The PAS should store it's own fault codes..to cut down on guesswork..,
Charlie
 
varesecrazy said:
The PAS should store it's own fault codes..to cut down on guesswork..,
Charlie
Click to expand...

Correct, although sometimes there are no errors (mostly when the problem is low voltage etc)

But you can always use multiecuscan to read steering ecu parameters and many more...
 
martinofsthus said:
Go straight for the EPS torque sensor Connector, and give it a good workout with contact cleaner or best, Deoxit, moving it back and fourth (has a blue stopper that you have to remove.

Intermittent and going on for a long time points to the torque sensor.
If the EPS was giving less assistance to one side (more developed fault), this tip would be even better.


The eps torque sensor connector can affect the analogue voltage readings before they are turned digital and computed. I have fixed a meriva that uses the same brand EPS (DELPHI e-steer) and same torque sensor. My fix could apply to many FIAT models. If the eps gives less assistance in one direction + intermittent + works smoothly in other respects, then this can be a very cheap fix.


From thread Meriva EPS light


I belive that bringing the EPS back from fairy constant reduced left assistance proves that a sensor connection has been improved. The qlitches that it started with could be anything, but as they are also gone it must also have been related to the connector.

Connections I have fixed with deoxit:
1. Spotlight in kitchen fan/extractor (9 years old) intermittent connection - maybe 15 applications during 2 years. Due to constant humidity from cooking I expect it to fail again, and apply deoxit again.
2. Eps connector Meriva (12 years old)- First intermittent connection, then constant bad connection evry second day (more resistance/lower voltage read from left hand torque signal). Cause - bad quality/bad production connector as with the Hdmi connector ?
3. Hdmi connector TV (3 years old), intermittent connection for two years, one application and fixed.

Since fixing the connector I have read more about EPS systems and voltages, and feel more sure about what was wrong. I never managed to read related error codes, but voltages explains it all. Think about the steering as some kind of analog joystick (If it was, then 0.25v would be f.ex full left, 4.75V full right, 2.5V straight ahead. Bad connection would steeer you to the left. As it is set up the EPS will never steer you towards lower voltage.
It has two separate voltages as a safety measure.

The connector has 6 active pins (8 total, 2 empty) and 3 voltages.
Left hand (turns left when voltage is above 2.5 Volts, range 0.25 - 4.75 volts). When steering wheel is "squeezed" to the left this voltage increases, and the other decreases.
Right hand (turns right when voltage is above 2.5 Volts, range 0.25 - 4.75 volts)
Position (not sure about how it works).
If Left hand or right hand drops to 0 in a glitch, EPS is deactivated.
If left hand has a "neutral" voltage of f.ex 2.2 volts because of established, stable bad connection, turning to the left will be harder than to the right (you have to be above 2.5 volts for anything to happen, and you will never reach 4.75 volts).
Improve the connection with a good contact cleaner, f.ex deoxit, or just move the connector back and forth. Bad connection will degrade this connector very slowly because it is very low ampere, maybe 30-40 milliampere.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I have an intermittent fault on my daughter's Punto steering and I'll try to check those things out before I splash out £200-odd on a new motor!
 
Does anyone know if there are any earth connections behind the dash, that are anything to do with the electric power steering, please? I had a quick look at the weekend. Pulled all the connectors of the EPS unit and sprayed with switch cleaner. No different though. I also took the fuse box out and sprayed all the connectors underneath it with switch cleaner. Again, still no different.
 
varesecrazy said:
Hi,
with 200k on the clock the alternator may well need a hand.., :)

check for 14 volts at battery with engine running,;)
the PAS is VERY power hungry - so if down on electrical power it will flag up faults:eek:

Charlie - Oxford
Click to expand...

I've just checked and the alternator is charging the battery exactly as it should; 12.2v with the engine off and 14.02v with the engine running. Thanks for the suggestion Charlie.

DGPunto said:
Definitely worth the usual - "check all the electrical terminals/earth points" check in case it's just a poor connection
Click to expand...

Looks like this might be the problem but I wasn't expecting to have to grease the earthing points. My Suzuki just has them open to the everything the universe can throw at them but it works! I don't have any grease at the moment so will need to buy some. Is there any specific type you would recommend or will any high temperature stuff be sufficient?
 
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