General 1.3 purchase advice

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General 1.3 purchase advice

M4rt1n

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Hi all

Im looking to purchase a 1.3 mj soon but im not too clued up on these engines.

Are there any particular things i should be looking for with these motors?

Its the 90bhp version, 38000 miles 7 service stamps in the book and on a 55 plate. Its £3300, does this seem reasonable?

Also im not sure if the cam belt/chain has been done. I cant find any info online when it should be done either.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Mart :)
 
If I remember rightly, timing belts should be changed every 5 years or 55,000 miles at most, same with the water pump, so the one on this car should really have had it done if it's a 55 plate. Could use that as a bargaining chip, it's quite an expensive job to have done.

Is it a good spec i.e. Dynamic/Eleganza? You really want to get one with all the equipment, go for the bells and whistles or you'll regret it

I think the gearboxes in diesels can be a bit of a problem child because of the torque, but if it's the 90HP then the gearbox (5- or 6-speed) should be fine at 38k but check all gears for whining or crunching

Is it a generally tidy car? Are you viewing in person by the way? If it hasn't been cleaned inside or out because the seller couldn't be bothered I'd be put off, signs it hasn't been well looked after

If you can get a test drive then just listen out for the general clunks and rumbles really, check the brakes work well with no squeaks, test all of the buttons and windows, wipers and such

Make sure the tyres are the same brand all around and are in good condition (no perished rubber, uneven wear etc) including the spare, as this again hints at good ownership

Check the engine bay for any obvious damp too

I apologise if this hasn't helped you in the slightest mate, it's just Adam's general guide to buying used cars (y)
 
Ok sounds good so far. It's the dynamic spec.

It's from a trader. I haven't seen it yet but should be going on Saturday. He says there are no marks on the interior or exterior.

My only other concern is the advisories from the last mot 3 months ago:


Offside Front drop-link Anti-roll bar linkage has slight play in a ball joint (2.4.G.2)

Nearside Rear coil spring corroded (2.4.C.1b)

Offside Rear coil spring corroded (2.4.C.1b)

Nearside Front spring cup Shock absorber has slight corrosion to the casing (2.7.2a)

Offside Front spring cup Shock absorber has slight corrosion to the casing (2.7.

Oil leak

Gearbox mounting Defective


Obviously the bottom two are the most worrying. Does this sound normal for a low mileage car?

Thanks for your help so far :)
 
Hello M4rt1n, I just went through the ordeal of getting a 1.3 M-jet and all I can say is that there is allot of dross out there, at least in my experience.

The manufacturer recommended intervals for oil changes on this engine are 18,000 miles, but anyone knowing anything about turbo charged cars will tell you that's optimistic to say the least, since the engine oil also lubricates the Turbo, so the engine oil gets a pretty hard time in terms of heat and degradation. I would be looking for the service book to show engine oil changes at half the recommended intervals 9K or below. Another important factor is what oil grade has been used for the general health of the engine. These engines need a particular grade of synthetic oil for diesels 5W30 ACEA C2 or above. If this can be confirmed, the engine should be as new.

Overall these engines are very good, the engine won an engine of the year award in Europe in 04 or 05 and were built for 250K plus if they are maintained well. With that said, things to watch out for are a clattery timing chain tensioner from cold (got to know what to listen for over the clatter of a diesel), but if you put your head to the left hand side of the engine top cover you should be able to hear an additional clatter over and above the engine running. Other one is obviously the Turbo, the 90HP version uses a multi-geometry turbo, which if it goes wrong WILL be expensive as it cannot be refurbished, other than at FIAT, and we know how that goes. If you floor the car in any gear up to 4K, you shouldn't see any black or bluish smoke coming out of the back under load, brown smoke is OK and should clear as the car is used. Lastly a blocked EGR valve, which will make the car run sluggish, but this can be cleaned by yourself or a decent mechanic to restore operation.

I believe that the 90HP version also has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), which can be costly if faulty. This is the particulate filter used in diesel cars to get rid of the soot coming out of the back. These can get clogged up if the car has only been driven in town and hasn't had reasonable length runs regularly.

Also the 90HP version uses a DMF (Dual Mass Flywheel). If this is worn the clutch engage can feel juddery. Luckily unlike most other cars to buy both a new clutch and DMF for the M-jet is less than 200 quid if you know where to look.

Lastly, and this is unconfirmed, my research into the cars suggests that the 6-speed gearbox is possibly the M32 unit as used in Vauxhalls and the 1.9 M-jet which are known to be weak and fail. There are some posts about gearbox issues on 1.9 M-jet cars in these forums.

I would doubt however the above should apply to a car with 35K+ on the clock, with the exception of the oil changes and oil grade used for the engine.

I paid the same asking price for a 5 door Dynamic 75HP on an 07 plate, with 79K on the clock, supposedly 1 previous owner and FSH, but the truth turned out to be somewhat different and the car was bought without an MOT or TAX also from a dealer, so tread carefully, the second hand car industry appears pretty dishonest these days and you really got to read between the lines, don't be afraid to ask ackward questions and try to read their response as the dealers don't appear very used to having to deal with knowledgeable people and get pretty defensive pretty quick or just go to the "I don't know" response when they don't want to give the game away. I knew I paid over the odds for the car, but compared to the other GP's I had seen in a week, despite the car being rough around the edges and needed an additional 600+ spending on proper servicing and 4 new tyres to get road worthy, I knew that the car was a little gem and flew through the MOT. The rough edges are superficial and can be sorted in due time.

Something you might be interested in knowing is that the 75HP version does not use a DPF and DMF or a multi-geometry Turbo, or the 6 speed gearbox, so there are definitely less things to go wrong, whilst its essentially the same car.

Hope this helps you in your decision making ;)

Humour
 
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The drop link, springs and shock absorber are fairly cheap and easy enough to replace, and problems with them could occur on fairly young cars at any time depending on the owner. Exactly as you said I'd be more worried about the gearbox mount and the oil leak

Oil leak could be something really really simple and cheap (more likely) like a split oil breather hose, or it could be something much more costly. Check all of the pipework in the engine bay, and try to see if there's any oil seepage down the side of the head/block etc

I'm not sure how the gearboxes are attached to the chassis in GPs, but the defective mounting could just be a deteriorated spring, or again something more costly.

If it's a trader you've got a fair amount of leeway. I'd ask them how much that their garage, for example, would charge to identify and repair those faults. You could again use the problems as a bargaining chip - have them repair the advisories before you buy the car

I hope it helps again, this is what I would do at least. Good luck! I'm sure it'll be a great car :)
 
Ok sounds good so far. It's the dynamic spec.

It's from a trader. I haven't seen it yet but should be going on Saturday. He says there are no marks on the interior or exterior.

My only other concern is the advisories from the last mot 3 months ago:


Offside Front drop-link Anti-roll bar linkage has slight play in a ball joint (2.4.G.2)

Nearside Rear coil spring corroded (2.4.C.1b)

Offside Rear coil spring corroded (2.4.C.1b)

Nearside Front spring cup Shock absorber has slight corrosion to the casing (2.7.2a)

Offside Front spring cup Shock absorber has slight corrosion to the casing (2.7.

Oil leak

Gearbox mounting Defective


Obviously the bottom two are the most worrying. Does this sound normal for a low mileage car?

Thanks for your help so far :)

This one?

http://www.woolstoncarcentre.co.uk/...for-sale-in-warrington-cheshire/aetv96334711/

If the gearbox mounting is defective then I assume it is in need of replacement but I am sure someone can clarify this. I am just basing my assumption on the word defective.

To me this low mileage on a car of this age would be more of a turn off than on - but that is just my opinion. I don't think low mileage on a car of this age should mean it is more expensive than something with slightly more miles. There are many around which are newer with FSH for similar prices. Car hunting is hard work though and often involves taking a risk or two.
 
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Ha! I just seen your update post.

Unfortunately these cars are generally unloved mate and don't forget that after all its a Punto, not a BMW, so parts will have a shorter life span, especially with today's culture of use it abuse it then use it as a deposit for a new car. :rolleyes:

If the car has lived close to the sea side, then you can expect more corrosion on all parts. If the car was just used and not cleaned properly after a winter's driving on salty roads, all of the areas you mentioned could be prone to corrosion.

My 07 plate has surface rust on wishbones and front subframe as well as little brackets on rear subframe, but its also 2 years younger than a 55 plate.

Personally I wouldn't get too hanged up on mileage. I walked away from 2 90HP M-jets below 50K prior to buying my car. History, servicing intervals showing mileage and general care of the car would take priority. You can tell allot about previous owners by looking carefully of the state of the car during an inspection.

I would worry about the oil leak too. I would advise to take a torch with you and ask the trader to leave you with the car for half an hour and if possible lift the car for you on a ramp to inspect, be prepared to lay on a wet floor looking underneath if necessary though!

Gearbox mount is not an issue, these do wear on all cars. Strange that one would be worn on a 40K miler though, this could suggest a car that has been ragged in lower gears, but it shouldn't cost too much to replace.

Hum
 
Cheers for the help all
I want the 1.3 mj but they seem to be few and far between from me. Yea that's the one. I want something that's gonna last me some time which is my reason for looking at that low mileage one. Do you think a newer higher mileage yet well looked after car would be better? One thing that scared me with that one is that most of the services were done by Arnold Clark, in sure there services are just stamping the book :\ I have looked at 3 so far and they were all dogs. They seem to all be ex lease cars that just got abused.

Agreed! Car hunting is hard :
 
M4rt1n,

diesel cars were built to do mileage, so a higher miler isn't necessarily at the end of its life, far from it, if its been looked after.

Any car that has been doing 50mile trips daily on motorways or dual carriage ways would have had an easier life than one that's been stop/starting in town traffic for a couple of miles a day, especially a turbo diesel. Once a car is up to speed the engine is not under as much load as when having to move the car off from standing still, same goes for clutches and other components.

Brakes and suspension components wear, so don't be afraid if these need replacing, used them to your advantage to get the price down.

My car had the original 07 disks on the front which were so badly worn I'm surprised the car passed an MOT in 2012, the rears weren't much better either! New disks and pads set me back 50 quid and I replaced them myself in 2 hrs. with a general toolkit.

Yes, buying second hand from a dealer is hard. They will feed you bull**** to make a sale and its your job to read between the lines and make your own assessment of worth. Unfortunately 2-3K doesn't seem to buy you much these days, :eek: but provided the major components have been cared for, use anything else as an excuse to reduce the price and get the work done yourself or with someone you trust. I would trust a dealer trying to sell me a car/ potential lemon to do any maintenance work, I would want money off, but that's me.

BTW, look at my thread to see what risks I took and in what condition I bought for 3.3K https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/336401-newbie-owner-1-3m-jet-grande-punto.html

Hum
 
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Are you set on a Grande Punto or have you looked at Pandas and Bravos as well?

There are some bargain Bravos out there:

I don't know but I suspect there is little difference in fuel economy as the older 1.3 mjet's aren't as refined as the newer ones (according to the figures) and if you are looking at diesel you'll easily manage 50mpg out of a larger engine Bravo, probably much better all round on the motorway than the 1.3.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...postcode/sp103hr/page/1/radius/1501?logcode=p
 
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I'd second the suggestion of the panda ;)

Lots more choice for the price bracket, less chance of being modified and in terms of practicality I can't say my panda has restricted me much more than my gp did. The engine is brilliant, motorway journeys are very relaxed and it is even quiet.

However, the gp is stunningly beautiful which I will admit the panda ain't.
 
Im not a fan of pandas to be honest. I like the bravos but there just not so common and that also puts me off a bit. Are they a good car?
 
Just don't crash it, have you seen the ncap score?

I have, but it's not bad enough to put me off. Safety isn't always a priority for people, just look at the amount of seicento/cinq owners on here. I admit though I feel more comfortable with the new pandas safety score, and the gp always felt very safe, just feels substantial (mainly due to the massive windscreen pillars and the exceptionally heavy doors).
 
I have, but it's not bad enough to put me off. Safety isn't always a priority for people, just look at the amount of seicento/cinq owners on here. I admit though I feel more comfortable with the new pandas safety score, and the gp always felt very safe, just feels substantial (mainly due to the massive windscreen pillars and the exceptionally heavy doors).

Safety is a big priority for me. The 5 star ncap for the punto is also quite nice
 
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