Hi
My wife's 2007 1.2 active needs the belt changed. I've read the detailed guide that Andy Monty posted on the Grade Punto Evo. This needs locking tools. Is this engine similar to the one in my wife's car? I did the belt on my daughter's 2002 seicento 1100 a few years back and it was very straight forward, just using tippex. I was hoping that the Grande Punto would be similar, but I think I'm out of luck. If the car does needs locking kit, could someone suggest where to get it, and approximate cost.

Thaks in advance

hi mate my uncle did mine and took him 30 minutes no locking pin used he just removed engine mount and replaced tensioner and belt

funkyknuckles said:

hi mate my uncle did mine and took him 30 minutes no locking pin used he just removed engine mount and replaced tensioner and belt

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Thanks. It sounds like it is the same as the Seicento.

You'll need to get the self-adaptive parameters reset afterwards(however you get it done), or you'll get the Generic Misfire code and EML flashing at motorway speeds.

Threads about it crop up on here all the time when garages/people have cut corners.

Hi there. Thanks for the information. It will avoid worry if the mil comes on after the job.

Look, as long as you keep the timing the same, the ECU has no way whatsoever to know whether you have changed the timing belt or not.

Here's how I did it without using the locking tools, on my 1.2 8v.

Drained cooling system.

Removed all gubbins inc engine mount.

Let the tensioner off.

Without moving the cam or crank, slipped the belt off.

Changed the water pump.

Put the new belt on, making very sure that I aligned the timing marks on the belt with the timing marks on the cam and crank.

Tensioned the belt.

Turned the engine over a couple of times by hand making sure that the timing marks remained lined up (remember the crank makes 2 revolutions per camshaft revolution so you might have to go round a couple of times.

Checked the belt tension again.

Refilled cooling system, put everything back together, and started it. Ran absolutely great!

Yes, this is cutting corners and you need to be aware of the risks if you cock it up; however it saved me a big chunk of money that I was glad of at the time! It would definitely have been *easier* with the locking tools.

The hardest bit was getting the bottom bolt off the engine mounting! Tight as a bastard and awkward access for my massive hands!

excession said:

Look, as long as you keep the timing the same, the ECU has no way whatsoever to know whether you have changed the timing belt or not.

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... Which would be true of an older (pre-2000) model, but since then the FIRE has a crankshaft and a camshaft sensor, which tell it exactly where the two ends are accurately enough to detect the subtle timing differences when a misfire occurs.

Hence the false reporting of "P0300 Generic misfire" when the cambelt has been replaced and the ECU hasn't been told- even when aligning the new belt perfectly, the two signals are no longer synchronised at the exact millisecond they were before.

john7 said:

Hi
My wife's 2007 1.2 active needs the belt changed. I've read the detailed guide that Andy Monty posted on the Grade Punto Evo. This needs locking tools. Is this engine similar to the one in my wife's car? I did the belt on my daughter's 2002 seicento 1100 a few years back and it was very straight forward, just using tippex. I was hoping that the Grande Punto would be similar, but I think I'm out of luck. If the car does needs locking kit, could someone suggest where to get it, and approximate cost.

Thaks in advance

Click to expand...

That guide is for the Grande punto 1.2 not the evo

D4nny8oy said:

... Which would be true of an older (pre-2000) model, but since then the FIRE has a crankshaft and a camshaft sensor, which tell it exactly where the two ends are accurately enough to detect the subtle timing differences when a misfire occurs.

Hence the false reporting of "P0300 Generic misfire" when the cambelt has been replaced and the ECU hasn't been told- even when aligning the new belt perfectly, the two signals are no longer synchronised at the exact millisecond they were before.

Click to expand...

I must have been bloody lucky when i did mine (then again i did it early at low mileage)

Andy Monty said:

I must have been bloody lucky when i did mine (then again i did it early at low mileage)

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I think the likelihood of it happening is probably based on a bit of blind luck and how old and worn the original belt was when it was replaced. Even when using the timing tools, I've known cars to return with the P0300 error if the parameters aren't reset.

Over time the ECU will have noticed any gradual 'drift' in the timing between the two sensors and adjusted for it. With a new belt going on and re-tensioned, the signals are now back to where they were before and although the engine runs fine, it's only when you get upto motorway speed that the ECU throws a wobbly and thinks there's a problem (although it will drive fine as technically it doesn't know how to correct a misfire it can't trace).

I've seen it numerous times in my years at a Dealer's (and loads of threads on here) when other garages had replaced belts and been left scratching their heads and trying plugs/leads/etc to try to fix a non-existant fault.

D4nny8oy said:

I think the likelihood of it happening is probably based on a bit of blind luck and how old and worn the original belt was when it was replaced. Even when using the timing tools, I've known cars to return with the P0300 error if the parameters aren't reset.

Over time the ECU will have noticed any gradual 'drift' in the timing between the two sensors and adjusted for it. With a new belt going on and re-tensioned, the signals are now back to where they were before and although the engine runs fine, it's only when you get upto motorway speed that the ECU throws a wobbly and thinks there's a problem (although it will drive fine as technically it doesn't know how to correct a misfire it can't trace).

I've seen it numerous times in my years at a Dealer's (and loads of threads on here) when other garages had replaced belts and been left scratching their heads and trying plugs/leads/etc to try to fix a non-existant fault.

Click to expand...

I've updated my guide cheers Danny

Great info! I didn't realise that the ECU is that clever on this old engine... Probably because I'm used to the 999 and 1108 FIREs that were in Mum's old Panda and Uno! Hehe!

Thanks for clearing it up. Obviously I was also lucky!

So, how do you go about resetting the ECU in this way? Would a battery disconnect do it or is it a job for the dealers?

excession said:

Great info! I didn't realise that the ECU is that clever on this old engine... Probably because I'm used to the 999 and 1108 FIREs that were in Mum's old Panda and Uno! Hehe!

Thanks for clearing it up. Obviously I was also lucky!

So, how do you go about resetting the ECU in this way? Would a battery disconnect do it or is it a job for the dealers?

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It's an old engine but they keep adding bits the later fire evo2's also have variable valve timing

The car needs plugging in to a suitable diagnostics package either at a dealership or you can buy fiat /multi ecu scan and the relevant leads and do it yourself

D4nny8oy said:

I think the likelihood of it happening is probably based on a bit of blind luck and how old and worn the original belt was when it was replaced. Even when using the timing tools, I've known cars to return with the P0300 error if the parameters aren't reset.

Over time the ECU will have noticed any gradual 'drift' in the timing between the two sensors and adjusted for it. With a new belt going on and re-tensioned, the signals are now back to where they were before and although the engine runs fine, it's only when you get upto motorway speed that the ECU throws a wobbly and thinks there's a problem (although it will drive fine as technically it doesn't know how to correct a misfire it can't trace).

I've seen it numerous times in my years at a Dealer's (and loads of threads on here) when other garages had replaced belts and been left scratching their heads and trying plugs/leads/etc to try to fix a non-existant fault.

Click to expand...

lol yeah seen this myself and also done many from other garages and punters......easy money