i always have to drive pretty gentle by the time i get home as i live in me city centre with all the traffic you cant go nowhere in a hurry! So i dont need to let it idle or so for a minute before i turn the ignition off then?
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Technical Question for GP owners who re-mapped
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Technical Question for GP owners who re-mapped
i always have to drive pretty gentle by the time i get home as i live in me city centre with all the traffic you cant go nowhere in a hurry! So i dont need to let it idle or so for a minute before i turn the ignition off then?
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*bump*
Either :-
a) hardly anyone has had a re-map
b) hardly any GPS have suffered a turbo failure
c) those who have had a re-map and had a turbo failure rag the cars rotten and neglect servicing
Come on you re-mapped GPS owners let the rest of us know what to expect and / or fret about!
Either :-
a) hardly anyone has had a re-map
b) hardly any GPS have suffered a turbo failure
c) those who have had a re-map and had a turbo failure rag the cars rotten and neglect servicing
Come on you re-mapped GPS owners let the rest of us know what to expect and / or fret about!
*bump*
Either :-
a) hardly anyone has had a re-map
b) hardly any GPS have suffered a turbo failure
c) those who have had a re-map and had a turbo failure rag the cars rotten and neglect servicing
Come on you re-mapped GPS owners let the rest of us know what to expect and / or fret about!
You know I'm more than happy with my AT remap, just over 6,000 miles remapped, averaging 46+ mpg with some spirited driving on shortish runs. Quieter, smoother, faster too...
Hang on, I better be careful how much I praise the Angel boys will only get called a lick ass, by your friendly neighbourhood moderator...I fear another infraction is imminent...
PEZZ175
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*bump*
Either :-
a) hardly anyone has had a re-map
b) hardly any GPS have suffered a turbo failure
c) those who have had a re-map and had a turbo failure rag the cars rotten and neglect servicing
Come on you re-mapped GPS owners let the rest of us know what to expect and / or fret about!
It's a bit of a strange one this Ffoxy and as you know this issue of reliability post remap has been going on for ever. I've covered 12,000 miles with my remap....I haven't had a single problem with the car apart from a non-related air conditioning glitch and a ridiculous Fiat dealer service department to contend with. The clutch is fine, I've had no extra tire wear, the fuel economy is great and most of all it's brilliant fun to drive if driven properly!
The bad news is that my turbo has recently started to whistle and whine more as I've stated in another thread. Some will say this is bad and some will say that non-mapped GP's whistle too so there's nothing to worry about. So, I'm not sure myself but I do worry about it. The only other big drawback of the map is the black soot that's left behind you when you really boot it. I hate that part which is why I try not to get to that point when having a blast.
For the fun factor and general efficiency of the car it's certainly worth doing...but for the long term I'm starting to have my doubts.
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OK thanks to Sharkrider, Shropshirelad and Pezz175 for their input.
I do get a quietish kind of spooling up and down whistle from my turbo anyway, even driving normally, which turns into a pleasant pssssh at times of fun driving, I wonder if it was re-mapped before I got it, (it had 1,500 miles on the clock and half worn front Bridgestone tyres!)
So far no-one has actually admitted to a turbo failure in this thread, its really the servicing habits of the re-mappers I am interested in to try and piece together a "failure profile" if you like, of course taking note of daves statement about batch failure, but I cant find anything on the 'Net or other forums about that, the 1 exception being Renault.
The Garrett site I found imply its everything else rather than their turbos, but I guess they would say that wouldnt they....
I do get a quietish kind of spooling up and down whistle from my turbo anyway, even driving normally, which turns into a pleasant pssssh at times of fun driving, I wonder if it was re-mapped before I got it, (it had 1,500 miles on the clock and half worn front Bridgestone tyres!)
So far no-one has actually admitted to a turbo failure in this thread, its really the servicing habits of the re-mappers I am interested in to try and piece together a "failure profile" if you like, of course taking note of daves statement about batch failure, but I cant find anything on the 'Net or other forums about that, the 1 exception being Renault.
The Garrett site I found imply its everything else rather than their turbos, but I guess they would say that wouldnt they....
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thanks pezz175 thats a great post... i am thinking about the remap! But personally will have to keep the car hold of the car for a fair few more years! I am thinking of a mild remap! To try and obtain a balance... if there is such a thing lol.
heres an explanation of the whistling noise you describe of the garrett website:
What is causing my turbo to sound like a sewing machine's whistle?
The "sewing machine whistle" is a distinct cyclic noise cause by unstable compressor operating conditions known as compressor surge. This aerodynamic instability is the most noticeable during a rapid lift of the throttle, following operation at full boost.
and then what compressor surge is:
What is compressor surge?
The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map (known as the surge line), is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur. When referencing a compressor map, the surge line is the line bordering the islands on their far left side.
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
The turbo is too big for the application
check it out if you wana read:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/faqs.html
Although saying all that when i brought my GP 3 out of the 4 i test drove, none of them mapped all whistled! But only under load which is the same as my GP now! I think its more if the whistle is constant when driving and not under full load. Hope that helps
heres an explanation of the whistling noise you describe of the garrett website:
What is causing my turbo to sound like a sewing machine's whistle?
The "sewing machine whistle" is a distinct cyclic noise cause by unstable compressor operating conditions known as compressor surge. This aerodynamic instability is the most noticeable during a rapid lift of the throttle, following operation at full boost.
and then what compressor surge is:
What is compressor surge?
The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map (known as the surge line), is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur. When referencing a compressor map, the surge line is the line bordering the islands on their far left side.
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
The turbo is too big for the application
check it out if you wana read:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/faqs.html
Although saying all that when i brought my GP 3 out of the 4 i test drove, none of them mapped all whistled! But only under load which is the same as my GP now! I think its more if the whistle is constant when driving and not under full load. Hope that helps
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I suppose the real question then to make it easier for those already re-mapped, bearing in mind 1.8Stilo and I are looking to keep our GP's for some time after a re-map is :-
Who has the highest mileage with no related engine issues after a re-map, and what is the mileage?
Wonder where Puntokris is etc... come on guys
Who has the highest mileage with no related engine issues after a re-map, and what is the mileage?
Wonder where Puntokris is etc... come on guys
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Wonder where Puntokris is etc... come on guys
Isn't his turbo close to failing or has already failed? lol
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Yes thats why I asked after him in particular, to get his take on how he drives and the service schedule he follows.
Wasn't your GPS an ex-demo from TJ Vickers? That would explain the excessively worn rubber!
@ Pezz - What years your car mate, I think the dodgy turbo's were fitted to 07 platers?
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Wasn't your GPS an ex-demo from TJ Vickers? That would explain the excessively worn rubber!
@ Pezz - What years your car mate, I think the dodgy turbo's were fitted to 07 platers?
Well, I bought it from TJV thats correct but it was shipped in from a Seat dealer in Stoke after I told Vickers' I wanted one. To be fair tho I have no issues with trim condition that others have had, nor any rattles that either Vickers' couldnt fix or me by myself so it wasnt neglected or visbly abused before I got it, it will be interesting to see what the dyno says at Red Dot on 24th.
mines an 07
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Mines a 57 plate. Looks like 1.8 Stilo found some good info on the reason for turbo whistle. Thanks for that!
My car is going in for it's first service soon and I'm going to ask for some feedback on the state of the Turbo. I'll let you guys know how I get on.
Heres my two cents worth, haven't been on the GP section for a while.
I had my GP on an 06 plate with 9k miles on the clock, I had it mapped by red dot when it was on about 12k miles. on about 25k miles I had the GSR induction combined with another tweaked remap by red dot. My GPS has now done 35k, I've had plenty of issues with it but not remap related at all. The car still drives like new.
The turbo is currently on its way out and this is down to it beign a fualty unit, this has been confirmed by techs and others in the know who have replaced them and seen them go with the same symptoms on standard GPss on alot less miles than mine.
Ffoxy I always change my oil every 10k with the correct selenia stuff regardless of what the service intevals say.
Of course if you have a faulty turbo the remap will acclerate wear but if its going to go then its going to go! and its better to go sooner than later imo.
Just look for early signs such as oil from the inlet manifold and a black turbo. Smoke coming from the grill when you pull up somewhere is a little sign aswell.
As far as driving style goes I drive her on my 70 mile a day commute very carefully indeed, with the rev counter rarely touching 3 grand. When used getting from place to place it sometimes gets the odd blast but never for prolonged periods of time. I currently average around 48 - 50 mpg in her.
I had my GP on an 06 plate with 9k miles on the clock, I had it mapped by red dot when it was on about 12k miles. on about 25k miles I had the GSR induction combined with another tweaked remap by red dot. My GPS has now done 35k, I've had plenty of issues with it but not remap related at all. The car still drives like new.
The turbo is currently on its way out and this is down to it beign a fualty unit, this has been confirmed by techs and others in the know who have replaced them and seen them go with the same symptoms on standard GPss on alot less miles than mine.
Ffoxy I always change my oil every 10k with the correct selenia stuff regardless of what the service intevals say.
Of course if you have a faulty turbo the remap will acclerate wear but if its going to go then its going to go! and its better to go sooner than later imo.
Just look for early signs such as oil from the inlet manifold and a black turbo. Smoke coming from the grill when you pull up somewhere is a little sign aswell.
As far as driving style goes I drive her on my 70 mile a day commute very carefully indeed, with the rev counter rarely touching 3 grand. When used getting from place to place it sometimes gets the odd blast but never for prolonged periods of time. I currently average around 48 - 50 mpg in her.
I suppose its a risk you take when you remap the car, please correct me if im wrong but isnt the same engine used in the bravo in 150hp guise? with no upgrades of any components. So i presume the average remap shouldnt exert any more stress than the components can withstand (providing they aren't dodgy in the first place of course). I imagine this changes slightly for the likes of Kris and Tym who have gone a bit further with their tuning. But still i would hope that a reputable tuning firm would be responsible enough not to push components past what must be well known limits, otherwise they would gain a reputation for themselves as car killers. From reading motoring press it seems that the 1.3, 1.6 and 1.9 Mjets are regarded as some of the finest small diesels around (the 1.9 is used in Vauxhalls, SAABs etc isnt it?) so i would presume they can handle a little fettling without falling apart.
In my experience of a average remap (approx 160bhp) my car appears fine, 06, 26k, the turbo whooshes but doesnt whistle, id say it was fairly loud, but not worryingly so. I havent noticed any white smoke on start up, only black smoke on hard acceleration which is common for all diesels. I dont drive hard so im not worrying about the remap or my driving causing problems and i always let the turbo 'cool down' at the end of a journey. But there is a dodgy batch, i expect if my turbo was part of that batch it would be replaced regardless, any fault may have been exacerbated by the tuning but the fault was still there regardless.
I say all this but when its serviced maybe i will be another unlucky one, who can tell?
In my experience of a average remap (approx 160bhp) my car appears fine, 06, 26k, the turbo whooshes but doesnt whistle, id say it was fairly loud, but not worryingly so. I havent noticed any white smoke on start up, only black smoke on hard acceleration which is common for all diesels. I dont drive hard so im not worrying about the remap or my driving causing problems and i always let the turbo 'cool down' at the end of a journey. But there is a dodgy batch, i expect if my turbo was part of that batch it would be replaced regardless, any fault may have been exacerbated by the tuning but the fault was still there regardless.
I say all this but when its serviced maybe i will be another unlucky one, who can tell?
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Cheers guys for the above 2 Posts, much appreciated, I suppose there is some merit in an earlier rather than later turbo failure, I got til Sept for mine to blow after my re-map planned for 24th August lol! Even then if its a known batch fault then there should be some recourse after the Fiat warranty has expired.
The engine in the bravo is a 16v as opposed to the GPSs 8v unit and also has a different turbo. The same block that is int he bravo is used int he astra 888 diesel (200bhp standard)
Red dot have been good with mine, a remap can easily squeeze loads more power but would probably see the turbo last until the end of the road
other variables need to be changed before tweaked maps are loaded... Ffpxy hopefully you will see what I mean on the 24th!
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The engine in the bravo is a 16v as opposed to the GPSs 8v unit and also has a different turbo. The same block that is int he bravo is used int he astra 888 diesel (200bhp standard)
Red dot have been good with mine, a remap can easily squeeze loads more power but would probably see the turbo last until the end of the road
Yea Stilo1.8 and I are going for a mild map as a precaution TBH, around 160bhp will do nicely for me with a decent dolop of torque but not enough to make my clutch slip, thats all up for discussion with Peter at the time, he PM'd me.
I bought mine 2nd hand from Alex Gregory, he had it remapped at Angel, not sure of exact figures but sharkriders is 158bhp and 314lb/ft and that was done at the same time and i think its more than enough for me. I dont drive like a loon, but i love the torque when its needed for overtaking and slip roads. Ive driven a standard before a few times and it also makes first and second a lot more useable i feel.
