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Old 17-04-2008   #31
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by manthatkidisscrewed View Post
If you need proof then come down to the next rolling road day at Red Dot. You say your car has been mapped by Angel? Then get it on the rolling road and see how you feel with your results?
1000 mile round trip? nah

Quote Originally Posted by manthatkidisscrewed View Post
We don't slate angel for the sake of it. But the fact is Red Dot do provide an exceptional service at not only a reduced cost but with proof of the increase. Even if the rolling road is not accurate from one to the next if you have it RR'd before and then after the power increase is accurate 'cos you are using the same RR.

I will be bringing my mate with his C2 to the next RR day and he has an Angel map. This should provide some evidence aswell.
Only problem there is Angel also provide excellent service. With a reduced cost and as good a comeback if your not happy as anyone else. As for proof of increase there is no doubt the only proof you have with Angel is how the car drives before and after and on that point I can't fault the results I had.


Quote Originally Posted by manthatkidisscrewed View Post
If your/anyone else's Angel map is perfect and you get exactly what is quoted then I will take back everything I said.

Also, on the subject of selling duff maps...If you look at formula one...Ferrari provide the engines to several teams. But they obviously give them the previous years engine not the newest and best engine...Its the same thing with remaps...why would you sell your best stuff to the competition? And if Angel were any good then they would produce their own
Ah verify companies claim using test data from a rival?

Now don't take that the wrong way I am in noway whatsoever trying to discredit Red Dot but it is hardly a fair way to do it. Also owning a rolling road is not a complete requirement to developing mapping. Maps can be tweeked while on tarmac with test cars and the right equipment. Ofcourse you will not have the same type of data but you can still do it.

Then incases where a generic map is appropriate. Like a car where lots of people are having maps with say a normal type induction kit and a catback exhaust for example. Generic maps have a place.

However in a case where there are experimental or more extreme less common mods such as changing injectors or cams or larger turbos a custom map with a rolling road setup will always be the obvious choice.

Again I will not question the massive advantage having a rolling road is as a development tool. But people have been tuning cars since they were first made.

I'm not here to smear any of the tuning companies mentioned in this thread. Yes a custom rolling road tweeked map, tweeked to match on any car in any spec of mod will have the edge over a standard map. But to discredit any map which is not custom to the specific individual engine is silly. Every single car made is fitted with a generic map.

Remember these arguments are happening over the mapping of factory standard low performance engines. Not race designed high performance engines. Where the level of perfection required means the difference between 1.5bhp and meltdown.
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Old 17-04-2008   #32
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post

I've still to see the proof of this. alot of talk but little proof. Not syaing it's not true but I need evidence not hear say before I'll belive it. For all we know this car on a different road might make 190bhp then where do we stand.


if he take to red dot it will get rr'ed before any thing else so that will be 2
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Old 17-04-2008   #33
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Re: Rolling Road

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Old 17-04-2008   #34
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
if he take to red dot it will get rr'ed before any thing else so that will be 2
Thats is very true. But I am naturally very cynical of results from a company who would like to see low results. I'm not insinuating they would do anything to skew the results. but it would always be something that I considered a potential variable. Has the RR already used potentialy had any reason to skew the results maybe they offer mapping themselves? Does his car maybe have a small issue choking performance? Is the original map really that poor? Just a selection of things that could have caused the result seen.

But as people figured out the map was not Red Dot they had the knifes out immediately.
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Old 17-04-2008   #35
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Re: Rolling Road

mine had low reading on a companys rr that didnt do the map, so the company that did the map rr'ed it them selves and it was even less
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Old 17-04-2008   #36
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Re: Rolling Road

At the end of the day this argument can go on forever with no result...To be fair, aslong as someone is happy with how they have spent THEIR money on THEIR car then its fine!!

Yes some companies are better than others and yes some have proof and others don't but if you're not bothered then its cool!

The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
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Old 17-04-2008   #37
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by manthatkidisscrewed View Post
The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
same result i got too, then less than standard after it was tried to be fixed
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Old 17-04-2008   #38
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by manthatkidisscrewed View Post
At the end of the day this argument can go on forever with no result...To be fair, aslong as someone is happy with how they have spent THEIR money on THEIR car then its fine!!


Quote Originally Posted by manthatkidisscrewed View Post
The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
It's putting out 25bhp over standard according to that RR.
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Old 17-04-2008   #39
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Re: Rolling Road

I'm not slating anybody, I never say anything without proof and I state facts.

I have seen angel tuned cars on the rollers with my eyes many a time and they are always a lower output than quoted. Some even lower than standard... I have seen exactly the same car on the same day put out better figures with another companies map. I know for a fact many members on this forum have seen this many times on seperate occasions just like me.

The fiat generic map gives a power output that can have 10-20bhp difference in standard quoted figures.
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Old 17-04-2008   #40
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Re: Rolling Road

One of my competitors is Novitech. I have great respect for the products of this company. Although I have seen two specific products I do not understand the idea behind and in my opinion could have been made better. Bu everyone does sometimes get things not as good as they could be.

Another competitor is Merkur. They have excellent products. I haven't got problems with them either.

Both companies are respected by me because they do not overstate figures.

Another complany that has been slated here was Avanti tuning. I know about them and know them for a long time. I have no problem defending them as I know what they are about and did so.

AT has quoted figures they were not ab le to meet. Why do they do this? On top of it they tried to discredit anything they could in connection with Red Dot and GSR. Why?

Neither Red Dot nor myself try to make claims that are unjustified. Sometimes people as why the performance increases are so low? Because we are not interested in Max Power.

If AT and whatever else they are trying to sell would not make out that they do know more and make more research than thay do then we all here on this forum who had seen what they do would have some respect for their business practises. Up to the time where the are pretending to be more than in reality the crap they are telling I will not recommend their services. Maybe something to think for them.
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Last edited by Oldschool; 17-04-2008 at 21:53.
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Old 17-04-2008   #41
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by Oldschool View Post
Another complany that has been slated here was Avanti tuning.
i thought that was the puntomk2 lot that slate them not here?


i still dont know if they are the same avanti that are not far from where i live?
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Old 17-04-2008   #42
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Re: Rolling Road

im beginning to wish i hadn't started this thread.

I went with Angel tuning because i saw the advert on this forum and Nigel gave very good service on the phone and was able to fit me in even tho i was miles and miles away from there garage.

The gains i received from the map were noticeable over standard and made the car more economical and 'felt' smoother.

The results are low compare to what other people are getting but at the end of the day i was happy when the map was first done and it has always put a smile on my face when i plant my foot and get held in my seat when the turbo kicks in, yer more power would be nice but at the level it is at the mo the clutch will take less of a beating and like wise the tyres
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Old 17-04-2008   #43
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Re: Rolling Road

no advert here
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Old 17-04-2008   #44
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Re: Rolling Road

Quote Originally Posted by Squirrel View Post
im beginning to wish i hadn't started this thread.

I went with Angel tuning because i saw the advert on this forum and Nigel gave very good service on the phone and was able to fit me in even tho i was miles and miles away from there garage.

The gains i received from the map were noticeable over standard and made the car more economical and 'felt' smoother.

The results are low compare to what other people are getting but at the end of the day i was happy when the map was first done and it has always put a smile on my face when i plant my foot and get held in my seat when the turbo kicks in, yer more power would be nice but at the level it is at the mo the clutch will take less of a beating and like wise the tyres

It is not my intention to make you unhappy. If you are happy with the map then this is all you wanted.

But on the other hand you asked the members why it is low and those are the answers they gave. The most here are not happy with what AT promotes should not interfer with you being happy about what you have.
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Old 18-04-2008   #45
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Re: Rolling Road

I'm sorry but in a thread where every post has only been about discrediting the Angel map without anybody even considering the possibility that something else has caused the result, I find the following very hard to swallow.


Quote Originally Posted by Oldschool View Post
On top of it they tried to discredit anything they could in connection with Red Dot and GSR. Why?


Quote Originally Posted by Oldschool View Post
If AT and whatever else they are trying to sell would not make out that they do know more and make more research than thay do then we all here on this forum who had seen what they do would have some respect for their business practises. Up to the time where the are pretending to be more than in reality the crap they are telling I will not recommend their services. Maybe something to think for them.

My original point is that there are many possible causes for the result but nobody seems even remotely interested in considering them.
You simply cannot have a GP tuned by anybody other than Red Dot in this section without being told your car is about to blow up or smoke the city or is down on power so badly it will be near standard.
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