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1.2 8V EVO 2 Engine Cam Belt replacement
A time consuming job...
Andy Monty
22-05-2010
Right First off this is an involving task requiring some specialist tools and a bit of care and attention to detail get it wrong and there is a risk of serious damage to your engine....<br />
<br />
<br />
Tools/ equipment needed <br />
Old 21-06-2019   #45
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Bhutan 
Angry Re: 1.2 8V EVO 2 Engine Cam Belt replacement

Check THIS out folks...
Russians claim, that 1,4-8V engine has a bit different "clocking" in Fiat Albea model.
Crankshaft tool is 2 degrees off, comparing to Grande tools (as a reference).
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Camshaft tool is 1,25 (one and a quarter) degree out. So 8,75 not 10 (in Grande).
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Smallest tool is OK (tiny differences don't matter here).
Click image for larger version

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Let's add more confusion. Someone produced third version of crank tool, not 2 but 5 off.
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So, be careful. Using timing belt tools might NOT be the best and "professional" and "proper" way to do this. Depends on what tools you've bought via Internet (eBay or whatever, seller may not know what is he really selling). That explains why people sometimes experience problems after timing belt job was performed "correctly" by mechanic.
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock, Rado77 thanked for this post
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Last edited by GrandePunto PL; 21-06-2019 at 10:53. Reason: Warning. There are (probably) different tools for same engine!
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Old 18-08-2019   #46
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Bhutan 
Cool Re: 1.2 8V EVO 2 Engine Cam Belt replacement

OK, false alarm (>99% sure). Differences between tool sets, don't matter much (as long as you use a set).

Because, there is a "play" when you install any of those tools. And it's within range (1 or 2 degrees, sometimes more).
Forum is corrupted, animated GIFs don't play anymore (maybe if you click on it). It's a static picture.
Click image for larger version

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External source works for me:

Demonstration of the "play" only (timing was all good, it just wasn't on the position yet during filming this).

Cheap camshaft tool has a play too ("tab" at angle is thinner than the slot in the camshaft). You can use it wrong way and spoil the timing.
Click image for larger version

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External link:


Camshaft positions don't matter really. Both are "good" or "bad" (it depends, which belt swap procedure you will use).
Click image for larger version

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You can use cheap "no name" tools. They may require a fix, filing some holes, because they don't fit (file with the round/half-round file, do not drill/enlarge the holes, it will spoil angular relations more).
Click image for larger version

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Watch out for a trap (if you are using your own DIY tools), there's a fine thread in this hole (where you install the VVT wheel tool). Don't just put there any random bolt. Note that VVT-wheel locking tool has a useless feature, angular tab (it does nothing). Ignore it (while making your own).
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So idea is simple: you lock everything (crank, cam, VVT) and then you can just swap the belt. That's it. Easy. For "sanity check" make your own belt paint marks (two - on the crankshaft and the camshaft/VVT wheel). Transfer them to the new belt. Triple check - count the tooth between marks.

In reality you could "invent" your own timing tools, and lock ("freeze" everything in) the engine in any random position, and then swap the belt. Engine couldn't tell the difference.

Guess what. Phonic wheel has a play too (before you tighten it). So you can "spoil" the timing everytime you remove/install it (that's why you have software options like "phonic wheel learning" - NOT because of TDC sensor or timing belt itself was moved, swapped).
Click image for larger version

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External server:

With so much "wiggle room" (tools and engine parts), there's really no "precision" in such job, so using timing tools does NOT automatically make it "professional". If you install tools in any "random" (as play allows) position and blindly follow "correct" procedure (undo the VVT), you can make it worst (timing). Not necessarily bad for performance, but numbers will pop out, like "2 degrees out": https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pun...ng-values.html

Assumption (when tackling this job, DIY style) is the same as stated in previous posts: engine was working properly before, timing belt job is just a scheduled maintenance. So VVT system can be totally ignored.
You can check the timing numbers "just in case". Before and after the job (camshaft desired VS real position). Small changes may occur (like half degree or so), make a reset (or whatever it was called in the FES/MES diagnostic program), phonic wheel learning, VVT learning too (if you have such option in your MES/FES version - it may also depend on which engine computer you select before connecting to the ECU).
Click image for larger version

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Last thing is a water pumps. There are 2 versions, propeller size (height), tall and short. They are interchangeable, so don't worry too much if order "wrong" one.
Click image for larger version

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My engine started normally (external GIF below), car drives fine, no errors.

Do the very first start-up as above (without top belt cover), so you can see if something is wrong, coolant leak, belt is not riding correctly (it wants to jump off the pulleys), if tensioner moved (make a paint mark at the top).
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock, varesecrazy, Rado77 thanked for this post
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Last edited by GrandePunto PL; 18-08-2019 at 16:47. Reason: WHAT a STUPID FORUM - GIFs DON'T PLAY
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Old 18-08-2019   #47
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Re: 1.2 8V EVO 2 Engine Cam Belt replacement

I'm surprised that phonic wheel can wiggle so much! Thax for perfect info...as usual ;-)
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Old 20-08-2019   #48
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Re: 1.2 8V EVO 2 Engine Cam Belt replacement

Quote Originally Posted by GrandePunto PL View Post
OK, false alarm (>99% sure). Differences between tool sets, don't matter much (as long as you use a set).

Because, there is a "play" when you install any of those tools. And it's within range (1 or 2 degrees, sometimes more).
Forum is corrupted, animated GIFs don't play anymore (maybe if you click on it). It's a static picture.
Attachment 202327
External source works for me:

Demonstration of the "play" only (timing was all good, it just wasn't on the position yet during filming this).

Cheap camshaft tool has a play too ("tab" at angle is thinner than the slot in the camshaft). You can use it wrong way and spoil the timing.
Attachment 202328
External link:


Camshaft positions don't matter really. Both are "good" or "bad" (it depends, which belt swap procedure you will use).
Attachment 202329

You can use cheap "no name" tools. They may require a fix, filing some holes, because they don't fit (file with the round/half-round file, do not drill/enlarge the holes, it will spoil angular relations more).
Attachment 202330

Watch out for a trap (if you are using your own DIY tools), there's a fine thread in this hole (where you install the VVT wheel tool). Don't just put there any random bolt. Note that VVT-wheel locking tool has a useless feature, angular tab (it does nothing). Ignore it (while making your own).
Attachment 202331

So idea is simple: you lock everything (crank, cam, VVT) and then you can just swap the belt. That's it. Easy. For "sanity check" make your own belt paint marks (two - on the crankshaft and the camshaft/VVT wheel). Transfer them to the new belt. Triple check - count the tooth between marks.

In reality you could "invent" your own timing tools, and lock ("freeze" everything in) the engine in any random position, and then swap the belt. Engine couldn't tell the difference.

Guess what. Phonic wheel has a play too (before you tighten it). So you can "spoil" the timing everytime you remove/install it (that's why you have software options like "phonic wheel learning" - NOT because of TDC sensor or timing belt itself was moved, swapped).
Attachment 202332
External server:

With so much "wiggle room" (tools and engine parts), there's really no "precision" in such job, so using timing tools does NOT automatically make it "professional". If you install tools in any "random" (as play allows) position and blindly follow "correct" procedure (undo the VVT), you can make it worst (timing). Not necessarily bad for performance, but numbers will pop out, like "2 degrees out": https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pun...ng-values.html

Assumption (when tackling this job, DIY style) is the same as stated in previous posts: engine was working properly before, timing belt job is just a scheduled maintenance. So VVT system can be totally ignored.
You can check the timing numbers "just in case". Before and after the job (camshaft desired VS real position). Small changes may occur (like half degree or so), make a reset (or whatever it was called in the FES/MES diagnostic program), phonic wheel learning, VVT learning too (if you have such option in your MES/FES version - it may also depend on which engine computer you select before connecting to the ECU).
Attachment 202335

Last thing is a water pumps. There are 2 versions, propeller size (height), tall and short. They are interchangeable, so don't worry too much if order "wrong" one.
Attachment 202336

My engine started normally (external GIF below), car drives fine, no errors.

Do the very first start-up as above (without top belt cover), so you can see if something is wrong, coolant leak, belt is not riding correctly (it wants to jump off the pulleys), if tensioner moved (make a paint mark at the top).
I found this post extremely interesting and has added to what I already know about these engines. Thank you so much.

Before doing "Becky's" timing belt (search "Becky's timing belt") I bought the Neilsen branded timing tool kit. (almost certainly of Chinese origin) I was actually very keen to see if you could change the belt using just tippex marks on the pulleys and without slackening the cam pulley bolt (as I have done many times on older engines). I'm a great believer in letting "sleeping dogs lie". My thinking was that timing belts are made to very close tolerances so I was having trouble understanding why changing the belt for an identical new belt should need all this slackening of cam pulleys etc. I actually did both my own 1.2 Panda - with a solid cam pulley - and my boy's 1.4 Punto - which has the VVT pulley. On both engines The whole job was done simply using tippex marks and, as suggested above, I marked the pulleys, casings and belt itself. I also counted the teeth on the belts to make sure they were identical (Gates kits purchased) and counted teeth between the tippex marks to be sure I was marking up the new belts identically to the old ones.

The job was easy enough to do (OK the top mount on the Panda is a bit awkward) but certainly no more difficult than most. Having completed the belt change (I used complete belt, tensioner, water pump kits) and before starting the engines, I set them up so that I could install the Neilsen timing tools. My thinking being that, in theory, the timing should be unchanged. I was very pleased to find that, on both engines (I had wondered if the VVT one would be in some way different) the timing tools slipped neatly into place confirming that the timing on both engines remained unchanged.

This was all some time ago. The cars are running absolutely normally (as they were before the belts were changed) and there have been no indications (MIL light or poor running) to indicate that a Phonic wheel relearn might be required. The only "fly in the ointment" I can see with doing it using the tippex marks without access to a set of timing tools is that you are relying on the timing having been correctly set up before you start. On both of our engines this was their first belt change so the previous timing would have been the factory setup.

PS. The play you demonstrate in the tools (crank and cam) is very interesting. I've built a few "performance orientated" engines where one becomes a bit obsessive with "dialing in" the cam timing (fiddling about with offset woodruff keys and vernier pulleys etc). But I think where a standard "cooking" engine is concerned the small variation play such as this might introduce will be irrelevant for performance or emissions. Different for a diesel though, you do need to be quite precise with them.
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Last edited by Pugglt Auld Jock; 20-08-2019 at 10:14. Reason: add PS
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