Hi, Was away in the Motorhome and today tried to start it to go home and it was completely dead. All the dash lights lit up as normal but turning the key did nothing, the van didn't try to turn over. When the mechanic came to get the engine going he put a battery booster pack straight on to the starter and told me not to stop it again until I got home. It has since started twice on the key but I have the AMBER generic triangle permanently lit now. Any ideas as to the problem.

Low battery..
Lost a cell would be likely

Did the battery:charge light stay off on the journey home?

Hi, Yes the battery light never appeared at all. At the garage today the mechanic tested the battery and he said it was OK. When I went to the van today the warning AMBER TRIANGLE had gone out so I'm none the wiser as to what caused the van to loose its starting circuit, it started normally with the key. ?????

Have had the same issue just last week, only seemed to happen when the engine is hot. Did you get to the bottom of it?

Bornagain said:

Have had the same issue just last week, only seemed to happen when the engine is hot. Did you get to the bottom of it?

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About 20 years ago I had a similar problem with a 1990 2.5TD Talbot Express. Significantly on that engine, the starter motor was shrouded in a heat shield, and mounted at the front of the engine above the turbo.

After measuring the starter solenoid supply voltage at all accessible points, including the solenoid, I came to the conclusion that the problem was due to the increase in solenoid resistance with temperature.

I developed a simple method of adding a relay into the solenoid circuit.

End of problem, but I did read of others with the same symptoms.

Hi, Had the van at the garage yesterday to see if he could find anything that could point towards the reason for the non start. He couldn't find anything and the van has started every time with the key since the problem arose. He scanned the van and nothing was logged. ??????????

Interesting. When it failed to start in a layby after a short stop I got under the front with a piece of metal and shorted out the terminals and the motor fired up no problem so ignition on and short the teminals again and off we went. When we arrived at our destination I tried starting on the key again and nothing so let it be. Four days later it was time to move on and low and behold it turned over straight away. Arrived home, parked up and switched off, again nothing. Next day tried it and its started first pull so now I had no problem to check out.
My intention is to get the engine hot again and try and replicate the fault then get in there with a multimeter.

Hi, Forgot to say that the yellow triangle with the exclamation mark "Generic Alarm" has now disappeared.

Ninian324,
I do not know what influence the canbus system may have on the starter motor solenoid control on your vehicle. Given the abscence of specific alarms, my first suspect would have been a faulty coil connection at the solenoid terminal. However that should have been checked by your garage.
It did seem possible that a faulty connection could have been disturbed by the mechanic/technician attending to your original breakdown.

Bornagain,
Please do take care. A hot engine at 80C can cause burns. The exhaust may be much hotter.
When I had predictable problems many years ago, I installed a second connection to the solenoid under the bonnet. The wire served as a test point, and was thick enough for emergency starting. (I never used it for starting. If so using, DO NOT dab directly onto battery +ve, as the battery will probably have been gassing.)

ninian324 said:

tried to start it to go home and it was completely dead

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issues that can cause this.

Starter solenoid or bendix drive on starter faulty, replace starter.
Earth strap between gearbox and chassis failing, replace strap or add an additional strap.
Poor connection to starter battery, check negative post clamp, secure connection to positive post, secure connections to fuses by the positive post.
Cable junction by engine fuse box, check for a secure connection.
Cable connection to starter motor, check for a secure connection.
Ignition switch, failures have occurred, a recall for some years, replace if intermittent or faulty.

Mike

An update that may be of use to someone in the future.

To recap, my fault maifested itself as a fast idle (1400 RPM) then the engine not turning over when the key turned to start. This happened after a long run but when the van was left for a few days the fault seemed to have vanished.
Yesterday, the weather was good and I had a free day so it was time to try and get the fault to appear again.

After having the engine idle for over three hours the revs suddenly rose to around 1400 RPM again so finally I had someting to look for. A run around with the Multi Meter and I found the the battery voltage had dropped to 12.5 volts and was obviously not charging.
Having read that these suffer from engine earth problems I connected engine directly to the battery negative with a jump lead. Low and behold the enginge RPM slowed down and the battery voltage came up and it also started on the key again.
So, I think its a case of renew your earth cable whether you think you have a fault or not because you may not have a fault today but its going to bite you sooner or later.

Hi, Went to start the van today to take it for a run and it wouldn't start again, the AMBER triangle has returned. I noticed that the RED OIL CAN wasn't lighting so I presume that is the reason for the amber triangle to light. Does the amber triangle isolate the van from starting because it has seen that the oil can has not illuminated. Any advice appreciated.

ninian324 said:

Hi, Went to start the van today to take it for a run and it wouldn't start again, the AMBER triangle has returned. I noticed that the RED OIL CAN wasn't lighting so I presume that is the reason for the amber triangle to light. Does the amber triangle isolate the van from starting because it has seen that the oil can has not illuminated. Any advice appreciated.

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Hi Ninian,

By not starting, I assume from previous posts, that you mean a failure of the starter motor to operate.

I have a "gleaned" (probably from this forum) copy of eLearn "X250 Starting and Charging". It is not brilliant, being a direct pdf print, and the diagrams have lost definition. However after consulting this file, I can say that according to eLearn, on the X250 there is no inhibition of the feed to the starter solenoid from the ignition switch.


I will attach a copy of the file for your convenience. If you struggle with diagrams, perhaps you can be guided through it.

At the LHS of the diagram A020 is the starter motor, with terminal C being the solenoid connection. Follow the wire from this terminal connector D004 to the ignition switch H001 terminal A3. The supply to the ignition switch is at terminal A2 shown in the diagram at the top of the switch. Then follow the zig zag route through fuse boxes B001 and B099 to the battery A001 at the top LHS of the diagram.

Hi Communicator, Thanks for your input, I'll just have to try and find the various components. I take it that B001 is where I would connect the jump starter, I'll have to look for D004 the feed leaving the ign. switch to the solenoid and A005. I'll try and trace the cabling as best I can. I'll post an update.

ninian324 said:

Hi Communicator, Thanks for your input, I'll just have to try and find the various components. I take it that B001 is where I would connect the jump starter, I'll have to look for D004 the feed leaving the ign. switch to the solenoid and A005. I'll try and trace the cabling as best I can. I'll post an update.

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No, B001 is the engine bay fusebox. The jump start point is A005. Scroll down for designations.

Hi Communicator, Checked the fuses at B099 and B001 all OK. couldn't find D004 but I now know that I'm not getting 12v down at the solenoid when operating the ign. switch. I don't know what I'm looking for or where it is, according to the drawing it's near B001 but I can't see it. I'll have another look tomorrow. Update to follow.

Hi Ninian,

I do not think that I can be of much help in locating connector D004.

Grasping at straws, there is a similar 2 pole connector on my x244, which carries D+ and oil pressure (both being signals from the rear of the engine). This connector is at the RH rear of my engine bay, tucked behind the battery. No battery there in X250, but as your D004 also carries the D+, could be in similar location.

My other suggestion is that on the x244, connector D004 is a larger multi-pole device. It is buried IN the engine bay fusebox, below the fuses and relays. Given what is shown on the eLearn diagram, it could be worth checking, but take care not to short anything, or you could blow the midi fuse at the battery.

When I suffered from starter problems in the past, there was too much resistance in the solenoid circuit. I got a clunk as the pinion was engaged with the ring gear, but there was insufficient power to allow the solenoid to complete its stroke and close the motor contacts.

I suspect that when your emergency technician applied a jump start connection at the starter motor, he just connected to the smaller solenoid terminal. I think that it could be more difficult to connect to the main battery terminal on the starter, and then energise the solenoid.

Hi ninian

Does the attached picture help locate D004 ? I think it joins two multi-wire harnesses together (possibly where they pass through the bulkhead) to make production easier.

Hi, PROBLEM SOLVED. Auto electrician came today and sorted it. He traced the problem very quickly to non continuity in the EARTH STRAP to the engine. I had it replaced about a year ago by a company but the amount of corrosion under the terminal was creating a HIGH RESISTANCE on the cable. He wire brushed it away and refitted it covered it in grease and now OK. Happy days. Relieved.!!!!

ninian324 said:

Hi, PROBLEM SOLVED. Auto electrician came today and sorted it. He traced the problem very quickly to non continuity in the EARTH STRAP to the engine. I had it replaced about a year ago by a company but the amount of corrosion under the terminal was creating a HIGH RESISTANCE on the cable. He wire brushed it away and refitted it covered it in grease and now OK. Happy days. Relieved.!!!!

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Good news..
Just a shame it only lasted the year

Recent enough to anticipate the problem would be elsewhere..