What do you exactly mean by that? Do you have the diagnostic map for 18F? I know it is almost the same as 16F, but different. Some differences I have figured out, but a comprehensive document would be nice...
Technical 6F/16F Cinque/Sei ECU Reader Project
- Thread starter Jamieboy
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Technical 6F/16F Cinque/Sei ECU Reader Project
What do you exactly mean by that? Do you have the diagnostic map for 18F? I know it is almost the same as 16F, but different. Some differences I have figured out, but a comprehensive document would be nice...
I mean I have the Fiat docs that specify the protocols, data locations, and conversion factors. They're in Italian, and I have them because Fiat left a server open years ago and Google found them. Since they're Fiat copyright, I won't post them online, but if you send me an email address I'm happy to forward them (on the same understanding). What they *don't* contain is the locations of the maps.
Hello
I follow that thread for quite long....is there any change to send it to me?
([email protected])
Thank you!!
You have mail, with any luck. Oh. No you don't, it's being rejected somewhere... I'll try tomorrow from a different account.
I'm currently experimenting with Alex to try and get something working for his IAW18F - so far, not working for reasons unknown. If you want to play, there's a stub of a program here:
http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/iaw18f.exe
It *should* grab the most important running data (not everything on the screen is implemented) and one or two of the error message. It's emphatically *not* complete.
Start it in a console with 'iaw18f n', where 'n' is the number your device manager has allocated to the usb port - this is intended to be used with a VAGCOM usb KKL 409.1 adaptor, loads on the internet, usually blue, and you'll have to extend the connections to the ECU per my post earlier). Wait ten seconds or so after you've started the engine before you start the program or it will get confused by the startup data.
Here's another program: this is a version for the IAW16F; originally tested on daughter's punto with a different adaptor but now the software is modified to work with the same VAGCOM device as above. I can't test it since neither daughter nor punto live here any more!
That's a normal windows app - just run it, select the appropriate port from the drop-down, and select the engine type to start it. All the engines are the same, so it doesn't matter which you choose... it should deal with any of the small FIRE engine single-point-injection units - 900-1100cc units in punto, seicento, Y, etc. I'd love to know how you get on with it.
http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek-punto.exe
Neil
I'm currently experimenting with Alex to try and get something working for his IAW18F - so far, not working for reasons unknown. If you want to play, there's a stub of a program here:
http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/iaw18f.exe
It *should* grab the most important running data (not everything on the screen is implemented) and one or two of the error message. It's emphatically *not* complete.
Start it in a console with 'iaw18f n', where 'n' is the number your device manager has allocated to the usb port - this is intended to be used with a VAGCOM usb KKL 409.1 adaptor, loads on the internet, usually blue, and you'll have to extend the connections to the ECU per my post earlier). Wait ten seconds or so after you've started the engine before you start the program or it will get confused by the startup data.
Here's another program: this is a version for the IAW16F; originally tested on daughter's punto with a different adaptor but now the software is modified to work with the same VAGCOM device as above. I can't test it since neither daughter nor punto live here any more!
That's a normal windows app - just run it, select the appropriate port from the drop-down, and select the engine type to start it. All the engines are the same, so it doesn't matter which you choose... it should deal with any of the small FIRE engine single-point-injection units - 900-1100cc units in punto, seicento, Y, etc. I'd love to know how you get on with it.
http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek-punto.exe
Neil
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nedge2k
Member
Hola, quick update, punto exe with 55 mpi engine selected partially works on the 18FD but causes lumpy idle. 18F specific exe is non working. Might be a case of using the 16f init code to get it to work?
Yuk... the 16f initialisation is so embarrassing I'm not even going to discuss it!
Hell
Thank you and sorry for my mistake...
there is my email:
[email protected] (or [email protected])
Thank you for links....how you got any protocols documentations for Punto MPI (or any MPI Fiats...old, first type like Punto MK1 16V MPI.... ?)
Jakub
BTW
VAGCOM usb KKL 409.1 it's OBD/OBDII connector...I've got only 3 PINs connector next to ECU
Thank you and sorry for my mistake...
there is my email:
[email protected] (or [email protected])
Thank you for links....how you got any protocols documentations for Punto MPI (or any MPI Fiats...old, first type like Punto MK1 16V MPI.... ?)
Jakub
BTW
VAGCOM usb KKL 409.1 it's OBD/OBDII connector...I've got only 3 PINs connector next to ECU
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nedge2k
Member
You have to modify the cable and add a 3 pin superseal connector, see Neil's pictures a page or so back or, for reference:
Pin 16 = +12v (you need to provide the 12v feed - I used a cigarette lighter adapter)
Pin 15 = L-Line
Pin 7 = K-Line
Pin 5 = Signal Ground
...alternatively, you can buy a 16 pin to 3 pin + power adapter on fleabay.
There's a picture of where the k/l wires go on the 3 pin connector earlier in the thread.
Apologies for my lack of updates, had trouble compiling Neil's source, hope to get back to it later in the week!
Pin 16 = +12v (you need to provide the 12v feed - I used a cigarette lighter adapter)
Pin 15 = L-Line
Pin 7 = K-Line
Pin 5 = Signal Ground
...alternatively, you can buy a 16 pin to 3 pin + power adapter on fleabay.
There's a picture of where the k/l wires go on the 3 pin connector earlier in the thread.
Apologies for my lack of updates, had trouble compiling Neil's source, hope to get back to it later in the week!
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Jakob, Looks like you might have it this time. I've included the SPI and MPI (16F and 18F) details. Neil
Hell
Thank you and sorry for my mistake...
there is my email:
[email protected] (or [email protected])
Thank you for links....how you got any protocols documentations for Punto MPI (or any MPI Fiats...old, first type like Punto MK1 16V MPI.... ?)
Jakub
BTW
VAGCOM usb KKL 409.1 it's OBD/OBDII connector...I've got only 3 PINs connector next to ECU
Hi guys,
I dont own a cinq or sei or anything of discussion here but have this data here if its of any use. I play around with diagnostics and some projects involving it helped me learn about microcontrollers, the PIC 18F series mainly. I have a Stilo so my projects use CAN for communication.
Anyway, in my quest to find more out about my car, I came across the attached file.
Its basically the database from Examiner, around '97, converted into CSV format. It has the scaling for every ECU used up to that point, and the commands, interpretations, ISO codes, everything.
With MS access or other database software its quite easy to tie the tables together with queries.. Just thought it might be of some help to you guys who are working on something for cars of this era.
I dont take credit or responsibility for the accuracy or the actual obtaining of the attached information.
Hope its of some use.
Dan
PS. Hope it isnt a repost
I dont own a cinq or sei or anything of discussion here but have this data here if its of any use. I play around with diagnostics and some projects involving it helped me learn about microcontrollers, the PIC 18F series mainly. I have a Stilo so my projects use CAN for communication.
Anyway, in my quest to find more out about my car, I came across the attached file.
Its basically the database from Examiner, around '97, converted into CSV format. It has the scaling for every ECU used up to that point, and the commands, interpretations, ISO codes, everything.
With MS access or other database software its quite easy to tie the tables together with queries.. Just thought it might be of some help to you guys who are working on something for cars of this era.
I dont take credit or responsibility for the accuracy or the actual obtaining of the attached information.
Hope its of some use.
Dan
PS. Hope it isnt a repost
THANK YOU!! I knew that some pins can be use, but never tried...at the moment I've got ELM 327 (use for ford)
I wonder if can be use as well...
Thank you again!!
Receive and try to read
(ItalianHi guys,
...
I.
Hope its of some use.
Dan
PS. Hope it isnt a repost
Thank you as well!!
nedge2k
Member
Thanks Dan! Just had a look at the VEHISO.csv and the ISO code I received from the 18FD ECU via putty (im on Windows 7, no hyperterminal) is listed in there:
...the plot thickens!
EDIT: Ok, lack of headers aside, I think we can cross ref what we know with the 16F against what's in the CSV's to get some concrete data for the 18FD....happy times!
...the plot thickens!
EDIT: Ok, lack of headers aside, I think we can cross ref what we know with the 16F against what's in the CSV's to get some concrete data for the 18FD....happy times!
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nedge2k
Member
jangcy, i could be wrong but I think you need the elm323 for ISO comms. I was going to get one before I saw Neil's work with the vag-com lead - the only problem with this lead is that the software need to be written to use it specifically because anything sent is immediately echoed back and need to be discarded before the real data comes.
The Weber/Marelli ECUs (pre 2001) *don't* use OBD in any flavour or form, and neither do any of the Bosch ECUs of similar vintage. The ELM chips all (as far as I know) talk one of the OBD protocols, depending on flavour.
The Vag-com 409.1 KKL adaptors (loads on eBay)
Talk directly to the K and L lines on the OBD systems (there are three or four different combinations used on OBD) which means they just need the connector sorting out. The adaptor is basically a USB-serial converter; all the comms is done in the computer, not the adaptor. But the ELM adaptors expect to manage an OBD datastream directly, and speak to a computer asynchronously, so you can't use that type of adaptor with the older Fiats.
Alex is playing with my quick attempt at console code which for some reason we haven't discovered doesn't seem to start the 18F ecu (I don't have access to anything except a couple of Coupes). Alex, I've just sent you the source for the 16F code to play with. As before, LGPL licence, so feel free. Since the 16F code at least starts, and you have both sets of docs, it shouldn't be too difficult to change.
Neil
nedge2k
Member
right, xmas break over, just spent 2hrs freezing my arse off in the car and still no joy!
two things:
first, the 18fd ecu does not need 20 seconds to "reset", it need 5 bloody minutes. if you keyon before it "clicks", no iso code is output.
second, the vagcom cable and neils 16f gui app doesn't seem to like x64...which I found out at the end of the two hours and seeing as thats the only thing that has managed to connect successfully so far, i think it's safe to say that the two hours i spent trying to get brainsuckers code to work with the vagcom cable was a total waste of time.
just to clarify, readfile(), by waiting 10ms before the read, does that allow the ecu byte to overwrite the echo byte in the buffer?
when my hands, feet and body have defrosted, i'll go out with an x86 machine and try again! also, neil, cant get either of those project exports to compile, hence modding brainsuckers code for now!
two things:
first, the 18fd ecu does not need 20 seconds to "reset", it need 5 bloody minutes. if you keyon before it "clicks", no iso code is output.
second, the vagcom cable and neils 16f gui app doesn't seem to like x64...which I found out at the end of the two hours and seeing as thats the only thing that has managed to connect successfully so far, i think it's safe to say that the two hours i spent trying to get brainsuckers code to work with the vagcom cable was a total waste of time.
just to clarify, readfile(), by waiting 10ms before the read, does that allow the ecu byte to overwrite the echo byte in the buffer?
when my hands, feet and body have defrosted, i'll go out with an x86 machine and try again! also, neil, cant get either of those project exports to compile, hence modding brainsuckers code for now!
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nedge2k
Member
right, ignore what i said about x64, turned out to be a loose connection
anyway, finally got brainsuckers code working with the vagcom cable but not barnacles code....really cant understand why its not working!
now, i've looked at the 18f and 16f spec and from 0x01 to 0x0F, apart from the lambda calc, it all seems the same BUT the air, water and lambda readings appear wrong when hookede up to an 18fd:
I had the idle control valve disconnected so they'll be wrong too.
Can someone with a 1.2 16v (18FD) and a suitably modified vagcom cable try the app and post their results? It was around 0 degrees when I ran the app so the air/water is way off. As for the lambda...god knows, I've only just replaced mine!
http://nedge2k.com/18fd/18FD-Reader_EXPERIMENTAL_v0.01.zip
I've disabled the iso checking so just turn the key, wait a few seconds then run the app:
18FDReader.exe COMx
(replacing x with the com port number)
Finally, don't try any of the error checking etc., just the basic info at the moment!
anyway, finally got brainsuckers code working with the vagcom cable but not barnacles code....really cant understand why its not working!
now, i've looked at the 18f and 16f spec and from 0x01 to 0x0F, apart from the lambda calc, it all seems the same BUT the air, water and lambda readings appear wrong when hookede up to an 18fd:
Code:
RPM: 1038 Inj: 0.532 IgnA: 33.0 MAP: 144 mmHG
Air: 35 Wat: 130 Thr: 31 (10.16) Bat: 13.94
Lmd: 128 ( 1.001) ISPos: 64 ISInt: 0 ISPrp: 0 TT: 0Can someone with a 1.2 16v (18FD) and a suitably modified vagcom cable try the app and post their results? It was around 0 degrees when I ran the app so the air/water is way off. As for the lambda...god knows, I've only just replaced mine!
http://nedge2k.com/18fd/18FD-Reader_EXPERIMENTAL_v0.01.zip
I've disabled the iso checking so just turn the key, wait a few seconds then run the app:
18FDReader.exe COMx
(replacing x with the com port number)
Finally, don't try any of the error checking etc., just the basic info at the moment!
No, it was intended to ensure that the byte had actually got there before the read timed out - but it turns out that the readfile() function has a timeout anyway which is set at the same time as the baud rate and suchlike. It can probably be removed.
Have you checked the earths around your temp sensors? Or tested them with an ohmmeter? Top of my head, expect a couple of K cold dropping to a couple of hundred ohms or less hot.
Uh, I would have so much to say about all this as I hacked down a small Linux/Java application to talk to 16F and 18F. Just the lack of time... Some point to look out for:
1. Indeed the 8F/18F family takes looooong to reset (I actually assumed it never resets). What I did, was to replug the 5A fuse in the engine bay, makes the ECU reset immediately.
2. The COM port settings were a total mess to sort out. First, bugs in the Linux Java comm library, and then proper initialisation of the port, sending line breaks, etc. Those damn ECUs are sooo sensitive to all this... All in all I got a grip on things, if anybody is interested I can post a short Linux C code that initialises the communication and reads out a couple of diag values. What to do with it is up to you. This is not the code I used in the Java application, but it helped me sort out the COM port issues and bugs in the library I used.
3. The lambda conversion formula is slightly different in 16F and 18F. Not sure why: (a) readings are interpreted differently on purpuse? (b) lambdas are actually different?
1. Indeed the 8F/18F family takes looooong to reset (I actually assumed it never resets). What I did, was to replug the 5A fuse in the engine bay, makes the ECU reset immediately.
2. The COM port settings were a total mess to sort out. First, bugs in the Linux Java comm library, and then proper initialisation of the port, sending line breaks, etc. Those damn ECUs are sooo sensitive to all this... All in all I got a grip on things, if anybody is interested I can post a short Linux C code that initialises the communication and reads out a couple of diag values. What to do with it is up to you. This is not the code I used in the Java application, but it helped me sort out the COM port issues and bugs in the library I used.
3. The lambda conversion formula is slightly different in 16F and 18F. Not sure why: (a) readings are interpreted differently on purpuse? (b) lambdas are actually different?
