Hi fellow cento lovers! How Y doin?

I've posted a couple of times in the past, to test the reaction to my project - a cinq shell with spaceframe/cage and mid mounted Alfa 3.0 V6 driving the rear wheels (much as I love cinq's, including the one I drive to work in every day, it has to be said that real cars have to be RWD ...)

Anyway, its progressed a lot recently, I'd post some pics but not sure how to - is it possible to upload them from my 'puta, or do I have to have them on a website?? Theres one on my profile if you can handle seeing a cinq which has been butchered with an angle grinder!

Quick question. I'm building this crazy contaption on a mega tight budget (£about £800 spent so far, projected cost £1300) and am well into recycling and re-using (but that doesn't mean bodging). Has anyone got a standard cinq alternator and or radiator (sporting one, if theres any differnece) they could donate to the project, or sell me cheap??) Free rides round a track somewhere in the beast when its finished for anyone who contibutes!!!!

Cheers dudes,

arrivederci

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Good to see you back again!

If you find 2 alternators give me a shout mine's currently overcharging

Can upload pics to the forum these days, if you go into new reply, under the submit reply/preview post etc, in additional options you'll find manage attachments and you can upload the pics to the forum using that

the one pic in your profile looks interesting though kinda similar to Z Car looks at the moment

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Lots of ways to post,but probably the easiest is to put the pics up in the gallery and link from there. Unf I can't tell you how because this script insists on posting a link even i wrap it on code. See the url button above.

That's one tight budget, BTW! Various posts from me on similar topic here and on the members section of clubcento. Which engine you planning to use?

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Good luck... both with the project & sticking to the budget, and I suspect in expecting a standard cinq radiator to cool a mid-mounted V6!

You're budget looks very tight to me. I would expect that you'll need to completely change suspension and brakes. The spring/damper rates will be all over the place, and the brakes simply won't be up to the job.

As for the rad, I've just sourced a new one for £33 +VAT from Northern Radiators (www.radiatorsonline.co.uk)

Cheers, John

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

GhostWKD said:

If you find 2 alternators give me a shout mine's currently overcharging

Click to expand...

I would see if you can change the regulator / brush assembly. Overcharging is almost certainly caused by that.

Alfacento, on the mid-engined cinq, it sounds like an interesting project, but I would like to know is the car long enough? There isn't much length between the back of the front seats and the rear axle. I would guess that you will be using a transverse engine / gearbox from a front wheel drive Alfa to drive the back wheels.

It will need some serious cooling as a lot comes from airflow though the engine bay and that will be difficult to achieve. OTOH there will be plenty of room at the front for a big radiator or two. You may need a bigger water pump as the hoses will be much longer than standard.

I would also think that the weight distribution will change so much that a lot of work will be needed to make it handle right. The cinq has much more weight on the front wheels and with a mid engine it will end up with most of the weight on the rear. I would guess that you would need softer springs at the front and much stiffer at the back. I assume that you would need rear disks and I would like to know what you will be doing about getting the brake balance right.

I saw a front drive to rear drive conversion on a Fiesta, and spoke to the owner. It had a RWD escort drivetrain, so it still had a front engine, so the weight balance wouldn't have changed a lot.

Good luck with the project.

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Mmm front engine rwd Cinq.

Off the top of my head what engine could you fit lenghthwise in a Cinq? a flat 4?

oooooooo a Scooby conversion now that would be an achievment

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

should of gone for an AWD! hmmm inspired by the Metro vr4? the group B metro with a mid mounted V6 (same one used in Jag XJ220!). i'd love to do that to the tipo! if only i could get a 0-60 time of 2.5 seconds!!!!

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Besbie said:

Metro vr4?

Click to expand...

You mean 6R4

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

I can't answer for Alfacento, but my thoughts:

Alfacento, on the mid-engined cinq, it sounds like an interesting project, but I would like to know is the car long enough? There isn't much length between the back of the front seats and the rear axle. I would guess that you will be using a transverse engine / gearbox from a front wheel drive Alfa to drive the back wheels.

Click to expand...

That's the way I'll be doing it. The Cossie Turbo Cinq had no space problems and none of the Alfa V6s are that much bigger. The Lancia Stratos had a wheelbase of 2180mm, while the Cinq has 2200.

It will need some serious cooling as a lot comes from airflow though the engine bay and that will be difficult to achieve. OTOH there will be plenty of room at the front for a big radiator or two.

Click to expand...

Yep. All the rads, intercooler, spare wheel and fuel tank has to go up front. Helps redress the weight issue, too.

You may need a bigger water pump as the hoses will be much longer than standard.

Click to expand...

I don't see this. Although there are likely to be some frictional losses, water is incompressible.

I would also think that the weight distribution will change so much that a lot of work will be needed to make it handle right. The cinq has much more weight on the front wheels and with a mid engine it will end up with most of the weight on the rear. I would guess that you would need softer springs at the front and much stiffer at the back.

Click to expand...

The weight distribution will certainly change. The good thing here is that the spring rates of Stratii (and replicas) are a known quantity and would provide a sensible starting point. It'll handle rather like a Stratos: whether that's right or not is open to question, but I once saw one stay ahead of two 308s for 3 laps of Oulton Park -- it was very sideways! They got past when the inevitable happened and it spun.

I assume that you would need rear disks and I would like to know what you will be doing about getting the brake balance right.

Click to expand...

Rear disks and handbrake mechanism off one of the smaller 4 stud Alfas, probably. Twin master cylinder fully adjustable set up to keep it all under control. Servo can probably be binned.

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

A while ago I found some pics of an old Fiat 500 with an Alfa V6 Turbo in the back, so it can be done. Although it won't be a quick build conversion!

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

As you can see (if the pics load ok!) there deffinitely is plenty of room in the back of a cinq for a fairly big engine like ther Alfa V6, infact theres far more space around it and better access than in the engine bay of most modern FWD cars!

There will of course be a rear weight bias, but perhaps not as much as you might think. Most seriously fast race cars part and present, eg single seaters, LMP, Group B rally cars etc run with a slight rear weight bias. Combined with RWD and if the suspension design & set up is right, its a formula thats hard to beat. I've weighed all the major parets that make up the car and anticipate sub 850Kg all up with roughly 57/43 R/F balance.

Under the bonnet I have now mounted a race fuel tank (surrounded by cage) which will be joined shortly by twin cinq radiators, the battery and a pair of silencers (the exhaust is running down the tunnel back to front to help with weight distribution and cos theres not much room behind the engine!)

Fingers99 are you planning a mid engined build then?

Mark

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Wow that is truly a work of engineering :yum:, get it done and take me for a drive in it, it may just make me want to stay in centodom

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Top quality work my man.
As a matter of interest what are the power figures on the lump you've got?

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

holy crap, that's a lot of hard work.

Nice job.

Can't wait to see the first runs.

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

What a project you got there should be really fun once its finished. good work and keep us posted with new pics.

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

progress looking good, nice to see someone actually doing this rather than just talking about doing it.

once it's finished, what is the car to be - track toy, race, or just general street use and for embarrasing big cars

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Fingers99 are you planning a mid engined build then?

Click to expand...

After the 1368 Sei (shopping car), yes. In fact a supercharged V6 transplant.

Nice job, yours. Looks like you're using Alfa struts at the front with fabricated wishbones and the complete Alfa subframe at the back. I'd planned to keep the stock fiat front suspension (but using coil overs) and fabricate wishbones at the back.

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Looks like it's gonna be FANTASTIC.......Good for you....a man of action!
Best of luck.

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

Very nice, i need to get myself into a project like this, probably with a tipo though, bigger for higher speed stability and i like the looks. That however, is spot on work. You undertaking all the work yourself? take it that its your garage or your an emplyee?

Jordan

Re: Mid engined V6 cinq

That thing is gonna need the biggest wheel arch extensions in the universe, me like :yum: