Hi folks,

Yesterday I bought my first car in oer 2 years (I live central so no need for a car but now I feel that I need one again). I plumped for a Brava 1.2SX 80 16v on a '51' plate.

Took it for a test drive yesterday and it drove very well with no problems to note. The bodywork is in excellent condition (apart from a couple of minor defects to the plastic mirror coverins and the rear door plastic triangles!) and the interior is spotless.

I met the guy this morning and handed over the cash. He in return gave me one blue and one red key! I then went back home to get ready and sort out all the paperwork.

When I returned to the car it wouldn't start. The 'key code' light goes out so the keys are OK. But the engine just doesn't want to fire up. All the other lights come on when the key is turned to 'MAR'.

I'm no car expert so I could really do with some advice on this.

Is it just a case of going out to buy a new battery or might it be more than that?

Many thanks,

Gordon.

if engine is turning over ok then battery and starter motor is fine, meaning crank sensor is by far the most likely problem (no spark on all plugs = faulty crank sensor).

if engine is not turning then battery is flat or starter motor is faulty. if battery is flat it could be due to a bad battery, or a constant drain, or a faulty alternator not charging the battery.


so really it all depends on what you mean by "the engine just doesn't want to fire up".



there should be 2 blue keys, it isnt a big proble but please get a copy made at timpsons to avoid the hassle if you lose the key.

jug said:

if engine is turning over ok then battery and starter motor is fine, meaning crank sensor is by far the most likely problem (no spark on all plugs = faulty crank sensor).

if engine is not turning then battery is flat or starter motor is faulty. if battery is flat it could be due to a bad battery, or a constant drain, or a faulty alternator not charging the battery.


so really it all depends on what you mean by "the engine just doesn't want to fire up".



there should be 2 blue keys, it isnt a big proble but please get a copy made at timpsons to avoid the hassle if you lose the key.

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Jug,

The engine won't even start. It just sounds like it's about to then no 'spark/fire/catch' whatever you want to call it.

Bit strange as it started 1st time when I drove it the day before!

Why 2 Blue keys? I though one of each was the go?

What do Timpson need to make a copy and how much?

Cheers,

Gordon.

sounds exactly like a crank sensor fault. check for a spark and if there is no spark then it is a good sing the crank sensor is at fault.

the car comes with 2 blue keys and 1 red key. the blue keys are slaves to use for driving, the red key is the master and is used only for teaching the car to accept blue keys, never use it for anything else, and do not lose it as it can not be replaced. you should have 2 blue keys so that if you lose one you have a spare, remember the red is the master, not a spare.

if you give timpsons your blue key they can copy it for £25.

Is it possible that it would start 1st time one day and then not the next?

How much would a new crank sensor cost? Is it a big job? Is this the end of my new car? Hope not.....

Now in a rather bad mood if my car is goosed

Gordon.

gordonpmitchell said:

Is it possible that it would start 1st time one day and then not the next?

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Hi Gordon.

Following on from what Jug has already said, as he wont be back on the forum until the morning.

Have you actually checked physically to see whether the spark plugs are sparking.

No spark points to the Crank sensor.

In answer to your question, Yes this fault can happen suddenly. It is usually connected with failure to start when the engine is hot.

Out of curiosity, can you hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the ignition on?

gordonpmitchell said:

How much would a new crank sensor cost? Is it a big job? Is this the end of my new car? Hope not.....

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approx £40, its very easy to fit, the only difficulty is getting your hand down the back of the engine, but its certainly something you can do yourself.

to help you, observe the attached sheet from the workshop manual. notice the resistance test you can do to give you an idea if trhe sensor is faulty (usually you get no resistance reading on a faulty sensor, infact you get no continuity through the sensor at all)

as both bridges and I have said, you really must check that there is no spark before assuming the crank sensor is the problem.

something else i just thought about, is the orange key code light remaining lit? if it is then the problem is the immob.

jug said:

something else i just thought about, is the orange key code light remaining lit? if it is then the problem is the immob.

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Jug/Bridges,

Many thanks for your help. As you'll probably have guessed by now I'm pretty rubbish with engines!

To check a spark do I just remove a plug and look in the space where it came from to see if there's a spark inside?

In regards to the key question above: The yellow key symbol goes out with the blue and red key as I tried both. So shouldn't be the immoboliser......

I'll try and get a look at it today. Is it worth trying to jump start it? My mate was going to come over and try today.

Cheers,

Gordon.

bridges said:

Out of curiosity, can you hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the ignition on?

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Bridges,

How/where would I have to listen to hear that?

Gordon.

gordonpmitchell said:

As you'll probably have guessed by now I'm pretty rubbish with engines!

To check a spark do I just remove a plug and look in the space where it came from to see if there's a spark inside?

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sorry gordon, i have a habit of assuming everyone knows about engines.

to check for a spark you need to;
1. remove the HT lead from a sparkplug (pull it off)
2. remove the sparkplug (using a plug spanner)
3. put the sparkplug back on its lead
4. get someone to turn the key to try and start the car while you hold the sparkplug near some metal on the engine, looking to see if you can see a spark on the plug. it can only spark while the other person is trying to start the engine, so you cant do this by yourself unless you have VERY long arms

gordonpmitchell said:

Bridges,

How/where would I have to listen to hear that?

Gordon.

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make sure the radio is off, you should hear it whilst sat in the drivers seat with doors and windows closed. should make around a 5 second in duration, buzzing sound.

The fuel pump does sound like it's priming.

I managed to get the car started with the aid of a jump start. Do you think it could still be the crank sensor as it started on it's own after we let it run for a while, left it off, then started it again unaided.

Gordon.

you cant jump start with a crank sensor fault so it wont be that.

it sounds like a bad battery. despite my first post which mentioned this, i did not assume this was a possibility after that because you said the engine sounded as thought it was about to start, which led me to beleive it was turning over at full speed, which means the battery was fine. obviously this was not the case.

Jug,

I may have used the wrong terminology when it came to first reporting the fault. Your help as been greatly appreciated from this new member who has no idea about engines!

After thinking back the guy that I bought it off did say it had been sitting a while wthout being driven so this would explain the lack of battery power.

On a final note will the battery now charge up and work as normal or should I be looking at getting a new battery?

Gordon.

Take it for a long ish drive without switching it off and see what happens if it gives you trouble starting again then just replace the battery.

bandido41 said:

Take it for a long ish drive without switching it off and see what happens if it gives you trouble starting again then just replace the battery.

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:yeahthat:

You can also get it tested at most garages for free.
Needs to be on a cold battery though for proper testing.