Coronavirus - The Thread :(

[andydiver]

It is easy to believe various conspiracy theories and so on, guess time will tell, at this time this is my take on it from a very broad country wide view: when this all kicked off there was considerable concern about who should be most worried and so on, and of course how quickly might we overwhelm the NHS, given that it was fairly well known that good intensive care was the key to saving the most poorly.
Around that was doubt as to exactly how easy it was to spread the virus, the obvious thing being a full lock down to prevent it, that's an experiment only Italy had much started by then.
So now we know a great deal more and reading between the lines and listening to the proper scientists (rather than Facebook), and other observations, it seems likely that the there is (or was!) a % of the population, heavily biased towards older people, who are reactors, unfortunately, to the virus, and they will likely have been through the health care system now and hopefully still with us on the whole, especially those from care homes.
That and ever increasing herd immunity (though not enough based on previous viruses), and the now certain knowledge that young people really essentially personally not affected, and the collateral damage to health and wellbeing due to restrictions, and I certainly believe that we are doing the right thing to reduce lock down.
Resolving to the 2m rule or face masks, well that is a risk reduction, not removal, and a minor one in the bigger picture. It is actually beneficial if an otherwise healthy number of people continue to get this as that will ultimately protect the not so healthy or reactors.

 

[portland_bill]

We are encouraged to wear masks in many situations. The standard wrap around medical masks are usually rated 2, or less, so deemed adequate. Grade 3 is the preferred level.

Most grade 3 masks seem to have valves, to allow breathing out to be less restrictive. Unvalved grade 3 masks seem to be rare.

A valved mask makes sense for dusty conditions, where dust is prevented from getting in, but breathing out is not restricted. But we are constantly told that the mask is more to prevent the wearer infecting others, rather than to protect the wearer. But a valve will allow unfiltered breath to escape, negating some of the benefit of the mask.

I'm thinking a grade 2 unvalved mask is therefore better than a valved grade 3.
Many masks are graded N95. (wouldn't want one international standard would we?) This grading seems to span grade 2-3, with my research finding most N95 to be equivalent (when stated) to a grade 2, with a few rated at 2.5, but I've found no N95 to claim grade 3.

 

[dave]

That and ever increasing herd immunity

what herd immunity? i thought you said listening to the proper scientists (rather than Facebook)? The proper scientists say there is no proof that any immunity exists for this.

 

[andydiver]

There is very likely some, if not total, though there is evidence that a vaccine will be more effective in the most leading research into the similar SARS. There might be hesitation when you ask a virologist about that because nature is complex, but overall yes. Vaccine trials are going well, especially when you factor in that deliberate contamination of vaccinated test subjects is not allowed apparently, which is interesting, and why this stage might take some time to get statistically safe data. So yes, the media will always be able to drag up a difference of opinion.

 

[Rocco Reviews]

We are encouraged to wear masks in many situations. The standard wrap around medical masks are usually rated 2, or less, so deemed adequate. Grade 3 is the preferred level.

Most grade 3 masks seem to have valves, to allow breathing out to be less restrictive. Unvalved grade 3 masks seem to be rare.

A valved mask makes sense for dusty conditions, where dust is prevented from getting in, but breathing out is not restricted. But we are constantly told that the mask is more to prevent the wearer infecting others, rather than to protect the wearer. But a valve will allow unfiltered breath to escape, negating some of the benefit of the mask.

I'm thinking a grade 2 unvalved mask is therefore better than a valved grade 3.
Many masks are graded N95. (wouldn't want one international standard would we?) This grading seems to span grade 2-3, with my research finding most N95 to be equivalent (when stated) to a grade 2, with a few rated at 2.5, but I've found no N95 to claim grade 3.

The CDC recommends cloth masks now.

 

[portland_bill]

Cloth masks are generally rated as grade 1, if rated at all.

Here, there are various recommendations to make your own re-usable masks, which generally will be hardly better than no mask. This recommendation is to keep demand for proper masks under control, so that health service people can have them. CDC recommendation probably from same viewpoint.

 

[The Beard]

I've brought this up before, about the shorting of the words in the English language right across the board,& even worse the upward style of speaking & worse still vocal fry. but that's a slightly different take on things.

I said before I used to be on a forum for information about a daily driver I had. The average age was 17 & they communicated by code, the language was terrible. Aye! bad memories

Slips into laziness as said, personally, I think it becomes a bad habit..
Make an effort everyone.....

There's been more than one spat on here over the years when it came to using "text speak". Although whether it's because of the rise of the smart phone and predictive text that does seem to be dying out a little.

 

[The Beard]

China.

After shutting down their country for a few weeks to tidy up their own mess, crippling the rest of the world with this virus, they are now back in full swing making money selling all the PPE and ventilators the world is screaming out for to help the dying!!!

Excuse me for being a cynic.

Have a look at their " wet " markets..........................

There are some (additional) potentially serious consequences for the post Coronavirus world.

To go back to your comment about China supplying PPE and ventilators and the like, many (I've no idea how many to be honest) of the PPE items that have come from China have been faulty, some kit arrived already infected with the virus. Others were incapable of fulfilling the role they were intended for.

I think it has to be considered that so many western companies will be so weakened by this situation their share prices will be through the floor which leaves them susceptible to hostile takeover and it has to be considered that the only country that will be able to do this is China.

There is a story, possibly apocryphal, that Mao Tse Dong was asked by one of his disciples: "How will we defeat capitalism?" The answer was said to be: "Capitalism will defeat itself."

If true, maybe this is, possibly, an opportunity not to be missed.

This might be a bit of a stretch but this situation could well be one of our own making. Stay with me for a minute while I wade through this.

Over the last 20 years there has been an almost perfect storm of the public wanting to buy the cheapest things they can find regardless of where it came from, the impact on our own industries and the jobs of our neighbours, and companies trying to increase their margins and damn the consequences. I had to smile last year with climate change campaigners in Manchester moaning about the state of the planet while wearing clothes made in a country with appalling human rights records - that controls its citizens to such an extent that Google is banned and they have their own state-controlled internet - and then ship the goods over 8,000 miles to get here. Where tens of thousands are in political re-education camps and the government are trying to seize more and more of the South China sea by building runways and naval facilities on atolls with the sole aim of dominating the far east shipping lanes and could even threaten the west coast of the USA, which could cause the US to withdraw its forces from Europe which could allow Russia to try and regain some of its former glory.

Virtually all of the "West" could be so financially crippled after this and growth will almost certainly be stunted, which may well cause more people to buy from China which will affect Europe, North America and Australasia.

I'm sure Ben can tell you about the PRCs attitude towards Taiwan and how they're quite happy to blackmail other countries into isolating that small nation.

I'd like to think there will be a reckoning for China but I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be no consequences and the hordes will soon be flocking to Primani and other shops to buy Chinese made clothes and shoes, electrical appliances, phones, tablets and laptops, guitars, pots and pans and virtually anything else you can think of.

In January when my Panda was in at the local FIAT/MG dealer for service I had a look at MGs in the showroom and thought they looked quite good, but they're off the menu now.

Right, need to lie down in a darkened room now.

 

[The Beard]

There is very likely some, if not total, though there is evidence that a vaccine will be more effective in the most leading research into the similar SARS. There might be hesitation when you ask a virologist about that because nature is complex, but overall yes. Vaccine trials are going well, especially when you factor in that deliberate contamination of vaccinated test subjects is not allowed apparently, which is interesting, and why this stage might take some time to get statistically safe data. So yes, the media will always be able to drag up a difference of opinion.

The view from within the ambulance service is that development of a virus is at best a possibility and by no means a certainty. There is some truth in the herd immunity theory in as much as once a person has suffered from a virus they have some in-built immunity should it rear its ugly head again.

Indeed this was one of the cornerstones of government policy as suggested by one of the major scientific voices on this. People who believe they have had the symptoms can be tested for antibodies, in fact SWMBO is waiting for one now, although this would be for Coronavirus, not Covid 19. If you remember, in the early stages the (scientific) theory was that if the "R", or infection rate was greater than 1 then the virus would eventually run out of new people to infect. Now it seems that they want the "R" to be below 1.

Testing people for raised body temperature is a waste of time as that proves nothing, you can have raised temperature for a wide variety of reasons. If you have a higher temperature you could self isolate and when the temperature goes down you can carry on as if nothing has happened.....until you contract it a few days later and infect everybody else.

The wider public thinks being tested for this virus is like being swabbed for DNA in some TV police show. It isn't. Although it's quick, it's also singularly unpleasant as the swab up the nose feels as if it's scraping the underneath of the brain and the throat swab makes you gag. And you still only know if you have Coronavirus....or not. But there's nothing whatsoever to prevent you from contracting it tomorrow. It won't tell you if you have Covid19!

Wearing a mask may, may prevent you from infecting anybody else but almost certainly won't stop you getting it as most of them are of poor quality or ill fitting. There are gaps round the sides of the mask and along the top, so unless it has a metal strip at the bridge of the nose to allow you to bend it to fit your face it will be fairly useless. Even then you can be infected through the eyes or by touching your face to ease an itch.

Wearing a mask for more than about 15 minutes, which is the advice given to ambulance crews, can cause your throat and lungs to become too hot and this is ideal for Covid19 as it loves warm moist places, which is why the only test for it is to check the lungs, which you can't do when you're awake but usually when you're in Intensive Care and attached to a ventilator.

Although my good lady wife is at work, I was sent home at the end of March as I have the archetypal "Underlying health conditions." We are steadfastly refusing to wear face masks as in the vast majority of situations it's completely unnecessary. She no longer works on "the road" and is in ambulance control now and no-one in there wears masks or gloves, they simply wash their hands a lot and sterilise their work stations several times a day, as well as door handles and the controls of the kettle/geyser, microwave and fridge. Apart from mini-cab drivers, wearing a face mask when driving is also pointless. Even if they have a suspected C19 patient in the back of an ambulance, the driver will almost certainly remove their mask.

Right from the very beginning of this outbreak we have walked the dogs twice a day for about a mile each time, and then gone out to the shops if we couldn't get what we wanted when with the dogs. After my wife had to queue for up to 30 minutes to get into any of our local supermarkets we decided on a different tack. Firstly we found that M&S were far better organised than our two local supermarkets so we travelled about 5 miles to go there instead. Not only was it a shorter job but she felt far safer.

We also travelled a little further to go to another town which had an independent butcher and a greengrocers, conveniently, next door; the staff serve you from the door which is a lot safer than having people push past you in Sainsbury/Tesco/ASDA/Morrisons/Lidl/Aldi (delete where applicable). But, overwhelmingly our tactic has been to stay away from as many people as possible.

Surely the best thing to do is to keep your distance and wash your hands...……..a lot.

 

[jimboy]

Carrying on regarding the use of English language, I have hit a new grump and it’s nothing to do with anything on the forum, it’s myself, and I would not blame anyone not agreeing with me. I do have the ability to laugh at myself at times and it tends to be the trivial things that set me off.

This morning, television on in the background and this womens favourite word was HOWEVER, the over use of this particular word was just doing me in.... The word itself is just a word, but she kept on saying it. The older I get, anything annoying to me regarding speech just lights my fuse. I’m sure there will be others out there that have statements phrases that grind their gears. I could almost write a book on the subject. Off to have a coffee and be serene.....

 

[09 johno]

when I am teaching engineer's and the reply to a question starts with 'Obviously'
if it was obvious I wouldn't have to ask the question!

 

[portland_bill]

Leaving the supermarket, there was a bloke just arrived, and applying sanitiser to his hands before getting out of the car.
Why? To avoid carrying the virus from his steering wheel to the trolley?
When he comes out, will he sanitise before driving home, or only when he arrives?

Just seen outside, a guy walking his dog. He has his face mask lifted up onto his hair, like people do with glasses. So any virus in the air, on his hair, will now be inside the mask.

 

[A3jeroen]

Overhere almost everybody takes a shoppingcart for a few metres, then use the provided sanitizer to kill virus on the handle and then into the shop.
I seem to be the only one that takes a paper towel with sanitizer, walk towards the shoppingcart, clean the cart and THEN goes into the shop
But I might be doing it wrong
Still: Only a few new cases per day overhere.

gr J

 

[jimboy]

People have different ideas, human nature. This situation has brought out the good, the bad and the very selfishness in individuals, simple.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The older I get, anything annoying to me regarding speech just lights my fuse. I’m sure there will be others out there that have statements phrases that grind their gears.

You have a kindred spirit in Mrs J who worked for many years as a school administrator. Poor spelling, grammar and punctuation really get her going as do people who say - "So" - before everything and "stood", as in "I was stood there", or maybe "I am stood here". It's like a red flag to a bull!

 

[jimboy]

These things tend to never leave you Jock, it was drummed into me by my parents and teachers. Of course the likes of social media in all its forms throw up some horrendous cases of the miss use, spelling, and other annoying quirks of the English language. I’m certainly no academic, but there are things you can do to help when in command of the English language.

We do live in a lazy society and I’m including myself in this. We have so many devices and labour saving gizmos, that’s fine, but in so many ways we become more lazy hooked on our life styles. Perhaps a wee bit over the top for some, but I can only see things getting worse.

 

[Eklipze3k]

Wait, if it's not "stood" what should it be?

I'm going to post this anyway, because as I was typing I suddenly thought "Oh yeah, standing! Moron..."

 

[dave]

Overhere almost everybody takes a shoppingcart for a few metres, then use the provided sanitizer to kill virus on the handle and then into the shop.
I seem to be the only one that takes a paper towel with sanitizer, walk towards the shoppingcart, clean the cart and THEN goes into the shop
But I might be doing it wrong
Still: Only a few new cases per day overhere.

gr J

get that here, also people putting the kid in the cart whilst they are in the queue for several minutes, kids sucking the handle sometimes or touching the handle then putting its fingers in its mouth. they dont get to the cart cleaning station until at the shop door.

No shop has worked out the cleaning station needs to be at the cart storage area.

 

[dave]

These things tend to never leave you Jock, it was drummed into me by my parents and teachers. Of course the likes of social media in all its forms throw up some horrendous cases of the miss use, spelling, and other annoying quirks of the English language. I’m certainly no academic, but there are things you can do to help when in command of the English language.

We do live in a lazy society and I’m including myself in this. We have so many devices and labour saving gizmos, that’s fine, but in so many ways we become more lazy hooked on our life styles. Perhaps a wee bit over the top for some, but I can only see things getting worse.

what about the over use of "at the end of the day"? there was a bloke on the radio who seemed to use it before and after every sentence, some times both at the start and end of the same sentence. My grammar is far from perfect but i nearly smashed the radio to shut him up.

 

[varesecrazy]

No shop has worked out the cleaning station needs to be at the cart storage area.

My local tesco have done ok

Staff clean the specially moved trolleys in the end of queue park

And there is a decent cleaning station by baskets as you enter the store

If only the Rotards wandering aimlessly on their phones would actually pay attention to their surroundings.. it would be pretty good