Coronavirus - The Thread :(

[CasLad]

I am a doctor of engineering, so not a medical doctor. I have worked in academia for twelve years as a scientist,. My specialism is chemical engineering.

Andrew

 

[09 johno]

Caslad, you are just a wind up merchant,
a few using this thread have suffered and have relatives, friends and workmates incapacitated and sadly lost by this deadly virus, go about your business as you see fit, but if you infect someone and they get seriously ill or pass away, their blood is on your hands.

Wake up and smell the roses, or move to the USA and spread your unquantified hoax scams where people might listen to you.

 

[CasLad]

To see evidence of respected doctors getting arrested, look here:
https://acu2020.org/english-versions/
Note that some of the content has been removed by Youtube.

 

[CasLad]

I'm not winding anyone up. Yes people have been ill, but it is no worse than the flu. Annually millions of people die of the flu across the world.

Please look at the references that I have provided, and then get back to me.

There is a whole different narrative outside the TV box and mass media news stand.

 

[CasLad]

Have a look at Immunology Professor Delores Cahill from Ireland "over 20 years expertise in high-throughput protein & antibody array, automation, proteomics technology development & biomedical applications in biomarker discovery, diagnostics & personalised medicine".
https://www.bitchute.com/video/GSe1ZmRB1yWq/

Andrew

 

[dave]

I posted on here yesterday to say that covid-19 is a hoax. I have received insults.

with your trumpian crap you have insulted all the people in this forum who work trying to control this illness that you make false claims of being a hoax. you are insulting the people on this forum who are suffering from long covid.
and the sickest insult you have given is to the members here who have lost love ones.
Put on your tinfoil hat get you coat and close your door on the way out

There is a whole different narrative outside the TV box and mass media news stand.

we dont go by the TV box we have eyes and also people on here working in the NHS who have dealt with flu for years and can tell you from first hand experience THIS AINT NO FLU.
If people wanted bull sh*t they would go see a farmer

 

[dave]

my specialism is chemical engineering.

Andrew

i think you have been sniffing them chemicals

 

[CasLad]

I actually understand if people don't want to accept that governments are corrupt and merely using covid to line their pockets from Big Pharma. It is a form of denial - self preservation. It is like in The Matrix - do you take the blue pill and remain in denial and blissfully ignorant, or do you take the red pill and see what is really going on?

 

[CasLad]

Dave,
Instead of insulting me, please look at the evidence that I have provided and respond rationally. Then I will discuss this with you.

I am leaving the computer for the day now, so I'll let you look at all I have sent...if you are willing to be open about this.

Andrew

 

[CasLad]

Dave,
Finally...you mention hospitals. The hospitals in the UK are emptier than they have ever been in years. My wife works in one. Doctors and surgeons have nothing to do, and the rate of covid cases is static outside London.
You are being told lies Dave.

 

[jrkitching]

Yes people have been ill, but it is no worse than the flu.

My own view is that you are profoundly wrong. Almost without exception, the reports from respected scientific journals are saying that COVID-19 is the greatest threat to the global health of the population the world has faced in a century. I'd suggest anyone seriously doubting this spend a day on a COVID ward.

I value free speech extremely highly, and am deeply reluctant to condone any form of censorship. But freedom of speech has to be balanced against the potential for causing harm. I accept, albeit reluctantly, that censoring information which has great potential to cause harm is necessary.

You should be aware that what you are posting may be deeply offensive to many of the other users of this forum. Folks here have lost close relatives to this virus, and some are working (or have partners who are working) to provide essential services in these difficult times.

 

[DaveMcT]

JRK - Only a fool would say that Covid is not dangerous. But it is a fact that fit healthy people under 60 will hardly notice they've had it. The massive elephant in the room is that lockdowns do not work and there is no evidence across the world to suggest that lockdowns have ever worked.

We should be double testing to (1) find those who have been exposed with a (2) follow-up test to find those still positive and most likely to be infected. It's down to viral load. Exposure does not equate to infection. Double testing avoids the issue with false positives and finds those with enough virus to be truly infected.

We should be treating everyone who tests positive on the follow-up. Drugs like HCQ will work but only in limited circumstances. Feeding it to everyone does nothing and leaving it too late does nothing. It's no cure but the symptoms are generally less severe.

Vitamin D is hugely important for immune health. The NICE recommended levels work only for people who get regular sun exposure. They are far too low for most people, especially in the winter.

We should be keeping the vulnerable out of circulation. The list of issues that will kill you if Covid comes your way are well known. Sweden has shown the way. Their death and serious illness numbers (per million) are no worse than UK but their economy has not been slaughtered on the alter of population control by lockdown.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Well said everyone.

Charlie, your last sentence strikes a very sore chord with us. My youngest boy in particular has found things very difficult. Self employed signmaker - shop fronts, vehicle signage and a whole lot more - Normally he works very hard, all hours, on his own and his business has pretty much folded. Now he's doing part time home delivery for one of the big supermarkets - it was all he could find - but the pay is pretty "basic" and jolly hard physical work going up and down the Edinburgh tenement blocks. His wife works part time at a nursery school and is paid a pitiful salary. He's had his business, all registered, pays tax and all above board, for nearly five years now but doesn't seem to qualify for financial help of any sort at all. They've cancelled all their "fancy stuff" - Sky TV etc - but still we are subbing them to make ends meet. There's a lot on the TV about all the financial help the government is giving people in his situation - He's certainly seeing non of it! He's not the only one we know of who are in this situation. Just where is all the money going? Can't help feeling there are a lot of really bad people who are scamming the system and walking away with millions whilst people like my son, because they are not "savvy" and "cleverly criminal" are missing out!

I am sorry to hear that your youngest son has hit hard times through no fault of his own. It is a tragedy that hard working self-motivated people are seeing what they have built up being trasjed in front of their eyes.
However if as you say he has been doing what he has been doing for 5 years then presumably he will have had at least 3 self-assesment tax returns in that time. They should give him more than enough grounds on which to claim a SEISS grant which would give him I think 80% of his averaged out monthly earnings. (I think there has been 2 at 80% and one at 60% but I might me wrong on that. It has a ceiling of £7500 per grant I think.
That is the situation in England.It may be different in Nicola's realm but I think we would never have heard the last of it if it is.In fact I am sure it applies in Scotland.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Dave,
Finally...you mention hospitals. The hospitals in the UK are emptier than they have ever been in years. My wife works in one. Doctors and surgeons have nothing to do, and the rate of covid cases is static outside London.
You are being told lies Dave.

Well done CasLad, you've managed to winkle me out of my nice safe wee comfortable hidey hole. Just to put this in context, I like to chat about things related to cars etc with others of an agreeable, knowledgeable and civil frame of mind - one of the reasons I find this forum such an agreeable place to be. I like to think of my outlook on life as being pretty broad minded and, whilst I may sometimes disagree with others, I often find their viewpoint interesting and helps me expand my horizons and mindset. Unfortunately I don't find myself in agreement with an awful lot of the stuff you are talking about here and I think our moderator is right to say you may be giving considerable offence and cause for distress to many. Your interventions are causing others to give voice to a lot of other interesting stuff though so that at least is making the thread an interesting read.

 

[09 johno]

I have worked in academia for twelve years as a scientist,.

So not a Doctor or an Engineer then!
I have read your previous posts regarding not knowing that you need a longer spanner or how to remove spark plugs or plug a hole in an exhaust.
So actually not an expert in anything apart from maybe what you do at work (as a guess)
So who is preaching propaganda and not facts?
Facts mean your personnel experience with this virus not what you have gained from conspiracy websites because your bored at home.

Oh, and by the way I am a 'Real' Mechanical and Electrical engineer and run and train a team of over 120 brilliant people, most under the age of 30, some of who have succumbed to this virus as well as family members that have. experience means I don't need to read the crap hoax propaganda links you have posted.
if you think its Flu Go bang your head against a wall and wake up:bang:

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I am sorry to hear that your youngest son has hit hard times through no fault of his own. It is a tragedy that hard working self-motivated people are seeing what they have built up being trasjed in front of their eyes.
However if as you say he has been doing what he has been doing for 5 years then presumably he will have had at least 3 self-assesment tax returns in that time. They should give him more than enough grounds on which to claim a SEISS grant which would give him I think 80% of his averaged out monthly earnings. (I think there has been 2 at 80% and one at 60% but I might me wrong on that. It has a ceiling of £7500 per grant I think.
That is the situation in England.It may be different in Nicola's realm but I think we would never have heard the last of it if it is.In fact I am sure it applies in Scotland.

Thanks Charlie. He's so despondent with how his business is tumbling down around his ears after all the hard work he's put in that he's pretty much given up. However we've very recently been in contact with an old family friend, about another matter entirely, who is a solicitor. In passing I mentioned about this and he's very kindly going to have a quick look into what might be possible. So, watch this space! I'm also very hopeful that my boy may find it moderately easy to pick up the reins when things improve because he has no big overheads. He was actually in the process of negotiating a shared workshop space just before all this rubbish started and, luckily, had not committed to anything so his only business cost is his vehicle. We feel it's likely that once his customers get up and running again he'll be able to get most of his business back - apart, of course, for the ones who have gone completely under. In the meantime it's going to be a lot of climbing stairs with heavy baskets full of groceries and "bank of Mum and Dad" in the background to plug the holes.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Well done CasLad, you've managed to winkle me out of my nice safe wee comfortable hidey hole. Just to put this in context, I like to chat about things related to cars etc with others of an agreeable, knowledgeable and civil frame of mind - one of the reasons I find this forum such an agreeable place to be. I like to think of my outlook on life as being pretty broad minded and, whilst I may sometimes disagree with others, I often find their viewpoint interesting and helps me expand my horizons and mindset. Unfortunately I don't find myself in agreement with an awful lot of the stuff you are talking about here and I think our moderator is right to say you may be giving considerable offence and cause for distress to many. Your interventions are causing others to give voice to a lot of other interesting stuff though so that at least is making the thread an interesting read.

Well said. We don't have to agree with everything that somebody posts. If you don't like it either ignore it or debate it properly and calmly.
By the way - who is the moderator that you are referring to here?

 

[AndyRKett]

CasLad I will be pushing hard for your removal from this site unless you stop posting all this utter BS ben this should be a place for factual information not conspiracy theory crap perpetrated by someone who makes claims of being a "doctor" but has no more qualifications to pass comment on this subject than a 6 year old in primary school.

I posted on here yesterday to say that covid-19 is a hoax. I have received insults.

and well deserved I would argue. I can make claims that I can hear the voices of demons telling me to put kitkats on a railway line, and if i don't the world will end....

I could argue this is no more or no less a serious and important issue than the utter nonsense you are claiming and if I convince more and more people to follow my idea it doesn't make it any more true. the tenacity of ideas does not make them true.

If this were genuine then the way to convince people is not to censure them but to have open debate. What is happening is that doctors and professors are getting arrested, books are being banned, and Silicon Valley (i.e. Youtube, Facebook, etc) are banning content.
I am indeed a doctor and scientist, but that is perhaps irrelevant, for I will refer you to other doctors who are being censored for identify that this is all a scam.

in any profession there will always be nut jobs, there will always be people looking to make a name for themselves and there will always be those who have little understanding of things and therefore are easily led by those claiming to speak from a place of authority.

Even you are claiming to be a "doctor and a scientist" but being guarded of your credentials makes it obvious to me you have no more authority on this subject than any other member of the public but looking to add validity to your own crazy ideas you align yourself with people who you feel will hold up and support your ideas. I note later down you do give more details as a doctor of engineering, which doesn't suggest to me you know much about viruses

you post links to the BMJ, clearly not reading between the lines and not looking at the full facts of the information, hoping that those reading will themselves not look at the information you're posting or if they do, not understand what they are reading.

I wouldn't waste time debating conspiracy theory websites or articles from the BMJ you've singled out, then taken out of context and either don't understand yourself or hope that other people won't understand.

Anyone who has a test and is identified in the test as having covid is assigned as dying from covid whether they have been run over by a bus or stuck by lightening. Here is a freedom of information request as to the number of deaths asssigned to covid without underlying health condition:

• No pre-existing condition: England and Wales – 4476
• No pre-existing condition: England – 4169
• No pre-existing condition: Wales – 294

It is merely last years' flu.

Anyone who dies with covid is assigned as having died "with" covid, not from covid. If someone is hit by a bus and dies from massive trauma, then there death certificate will reflect that. If that someone it found later to have a positive covid test then the death certificate will reflect that they also had covid, same as if someone elderly is struck by lightning and has a history of heart problems, then the heart problems are listed on a death certificate as a contributing factor.
When the numbers of Covid deaths are so high the information of those with Covid needs to be recorded at a later date the information might be filtered down and all those bus accidents and lightning strikes can be fully filtered out, however its worth noting that Covid in it's self might not be the cause of death and the immune system being severely compromised letting other infections take hold, the multi organ failure from weeks in intensive care etc all can result from a severe infection, did the "covid" cause the death or did the covid cause the thing that killed them? I'm sure you will now try to manipulate this to claim its not covid thats doing the killing but when you get otherwise health 30 - 40 and 50 year olds in large numbers all succumbing to death the facts speak for themself.

Someone gets run over by a bus and they spend weeks on ITU they are in a coma on a ventilator and eventually develop a severe pneumonia and die i'm sure you'd not be arguing that being run over by a bus isn't dangerous.

Dr Roger Hogkinson, Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons and Physicians, immunologist, and vaccine test manufacturer calls covid 19 "The greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the public":

and himself has been uncovered as a fraud. Plenty of evidence on that front out there for you to google. Now remember what I said about every profession being capable of having its wackos and people trying to make a name for themselves ? just because 1 person says one thing, doesn't mean that the literally thousands of people all in the same profession, all similarly or more highly qualified are wrong.

Here is the Editor of The British Medical Journal:
'Covid-19 has unleashed corruption on a grand scale...when science is supressed people die'
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425
yep and you're using this article in a "corrupt" way.

And example in that article is
"Suppression of science and scientists is not new or a peculiarly British phenomenon. In the US, President Trump’s government manipulated the Food and Drug Administration to hastily approve unproved drugs such as hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir.15 Globally, people, policies, and procurement are being corrupted by political and commercial agendas"

Trump was trying to claim that hydroxychloroquine was fix all that would treat covid and everyone would be safe if they took it. He did this to stop massive slumps in the stock markets, he did it to make it seem like he was in charge and that everything was going to be fine, and he suppressed the medical evidence refuting that drug would help and he posted and shared information on those who supported his way of thinking. People like Dr Stella Immanuel who claims again to have credibility just like your Dr Hogkinson all people who have been discredited and are just looking to make a name for themselves. a small voice in a very large pond of people saying the opposite.

I suggest that people switch off the propaganda and find out what is really going on.

Well said, you should so the same. propaganda is propaganda, doesn't matter which side it's coming from.

To see evidence of respected doctors getting arrested, look here:
Note that some of the content has been removed by Youtube.

I've not seen anyone getting arrested who hasn't done anything illegal?

As for things being removed from youtube. Things get removed for having the wrong music in them or showing a scene from TV show, If i wanted to make a video seem like it was being "suppressed" but the "deep state" there are plenty of things i could do on that video to make sure that youtube took it down. Also the reason we have warning signs on things is to tell people that someone is dangerous. when you are a child and you don't understand the world you have your parents to teach and guide you that something is "dangerous" that fire is "hot" every day people strive to make the world safer buy either putting up signs guard rails or one other way to make things safe is to completely remove the dangerous thing.

Just because someone has an idea, it doesn't mean that its not a dangerous idea. If there was a video telling you that by swallowing large amounts of petrol you would be cured of herpes, you could argue thats free speech, but also there is (almost certainly) someone who would try it, and die as a result. Therefore it is youtube's responsibility to make sure that what is out there is safe information, mainly because youtube don't want to be sued.

I'm not winding anyone up. Yes people have been ill, but it is no worse than the flu. Annually millions of people die of the flu across the world.

There is plenty of medical evidence supporting that covid is firstly NOT the flu it is not even the same group of viruses as the flu, but Idiots still perpetuate this in the same way that people still claim that humans only use 10% of there brain (which incidentally maybe be true in the case of conspiracy theorists?)

There is a whole different narrative outside the TV box and mass media news stand.

There is and i'm not going to claim everything you read is true.... however
every country in the world is battling covid. you can go and read the news in all these countries if you want. Every country that hates every other country is agreeing on the same things. They are costing there own economies billions and billions paying for furlough payments or government payouts, the banks are having to let massive amounts of debt pile up because people can't pay there bills and health services are spending trillions across the globe (you do believe its a globe right?) just to provide all the protective equipment and services needed to treat people, I had a Covid test done this morning at a sight that has been there for the last 8 months taking over a massive park and ride, porta cabins, tents, generators, staff, all of that costs serious amounts of money and its happening all over the world. governments risk whole countries going bankrupt over this, and not everyone involved is an investor in Pfizer. not every nurse, hospital doctor, cleaner, physiotherapist, is an investor in a drug company. you're basically claiming a fraud on such a massive scale that everyone is in on it, and in many cases risking personal financial ruin, except a small number of conspiracy theorists on websites?

Have a look at Immunology Professor Delores Cahill

did we know about Professor Delores Cahill before Covid? has she been asked to resign, have academic institutes distanced themselves from her since her remarks is what she is saying following the same narative as allt he other people who have a similar or higher level of qualifications and academic background that her..... again you are singling one person out to confirm your thinking, but not looking at the mass of information.

Now what does she have to gain from creating a higher profile for herself? is she trying to run for a political/government position.... yes, yes she is.

I actually understand if people don't want to accept that governments are corrupt and merely using covid to line their pockets from Big Pharma.

Now I'm far from blissfully ignorant. I am fully aware of politicians using a position of government to line their own pockets, if you want to talk about self preservation then politicians of any party are the epitome of this.


But to lock down a country repeatedly is political suicide. Trump did everything he could to ignore the crisis and look who things ended up for him. Governments all over the world are risking financial ruin for there countries and worse. People in government are not all Eton graduates with mummy and daddy's millions in the bank and many of them have investments in tourism, aviation, transport, and many other industries which have been destroyed by this crisis. Its idiotic to think that a shop keeper would burn down there own shop to make a few quid selling fire extinguishers.

Dave,
Instead of insulting me, please look at the evidence that I have provided and respond rationally. Then I will discuss this with you.

I am leaving the computer for the day now, so I'll let you look at all I have sent...if you are willing to be open about this.

Andrew

Now I know this was directed ad Dave but please leave your computer for considerably longer than today.

Dave,
Finally...you mention hospitals. The hospitals in the UK are emptier than they have ever been in years. My wife works in one. Doctors and surgeons have nothing to do, and the rate of covid cases is static outside London.
You are being told lies Dave.

What does your wife do in hospitals ?

My wife works in hospitals, her ward has recently been handed over for use with just covid patients. (she is a medical doctor btw) I work in the NHS almost all my friends and associates work in the NHS as doctors, nurses, paramedics, physiotherapist. A nurse I personally know died the on the 30th of December having been infected by Covid, someone who certainly would not have died from the flu because they're a nurse in a hospital and exposed to these things all the time. I work in the NHS. I have seen on a daily basis and spoken with the people who are infected with it. People who are younger than myself hospitalised with it. People who do run marathons and do long distance cycling, hospitalised with it. Hospitals are not "empty" the only idiots who believe that are the morons wondering about the out patient's departments claiming the corridors are empty..... well of course they are because its an outpatient department, where people go for eye appointments and hearing aid fitting. Its a bunch of small clinic rooms.

So go neatly go round and back to my initial statement, any insults that have been thrown in your direction are rightly earned on your part. for someone who claims to be educated, yet has fallen fowl to uneducated conspiracy theorists who don't even understand the basics. To fall prey to people like the doctors and professors you've linked too looking to raise their profile, to make a name for themselves and to gain financially themselves from all those paid interviews they will now get offered to appear on the idiotic websites you seem to frequent.

If you had a shred of intelligence then you would look at the bigger picture what is anyone gaining from this? what percentage of the world's economy is purely from vaccinations ? how much of the worlds economy has been damaged, just to peddle a few injections ? how much negative publicity did the hydroxychloroquine scandal cause ? if it was all about selling some medications then why did people jump through hoops to discredit that one and several other that have popped up since then.

There is no point Debating this, conspiracy theorists debate, flat earthers debate, scientists don't debate, they go out, they do experiments and science and then follow what the science tells them. the world is not Debating the existence of Covid because it has been proven, only people who "Believe" something isn't true want to debate it.

as you've already clearly stated your position that it is your "belief" that covid doesn't exsist or rather that it's just the flu, there is no point "debating" you as there is already a world of evidence out there you could look at if you wanted, but you're choosing not to.
Here is the whole of the BMJ's (as you like the BMJ) hub for covid. Now I want you to read all of the evidence on the BMJ's website information on covid ALL OF IT before coming back with any other arguments, as i'm sure that all the information on the BMJ should be sufficient to inform you fully. While you're there take note of the information supporting Covid and its severity, versus all the information suggesting otherwise.

When you've done with that, perhaps you could subscribe to some other medical journals or join some sites that aggregate journal information studies and articles. you do have to pay for them to get the full articles but the reason you have to pay for them is because it costs money to generate quality evidence.

I have included a pyramid of evidence. Now the way this works is that the mass of information at the bottom is the least accurate but the most abundant, the small bit of evidence at the top is the most likely to be highly accurate but is not as abundant. Not the bottom of that pyramid is "expert opinion" so even your most esteemed professionals shared in your videos and links still are at the very bottom of this pyramid. Everything else you've posted would fall below that pyramid. What you need to do is go and immerse yourself in the top part of that pyramid.

Only once you have properly educated yourself should you come back and comment further, as this is not a subject that is open for "debate"

 

[AndyRKett]

JRK - Only a fool would say that Covid is not dangerous. But it is a fact that fit healthy people under 60 will hardly notice they've had it. The massive elephant in the room is that lockdowns do not work and there is no evidence across the world to suggest that lockdowns have ever worked.

Absolutely wrong but you live in your little bubble and have no concept of what goes on in the real world, I am talking to people every day I am at work who are under 60 and defiantly know they have covid as they are severely unwell.

We should be treating everyone who tests positive on the follow-up. Drugs like HCQ will work but only in limited circumstances.

There is no set of limited circumstances where hydroxychloroquine will work
It does not work, it never has worked, there is a whole world of medical evidence out there showing it doesn't work, yet you have the audacity to call for the evidence on lock down efficacy

Vitamin D is hugely important for immune health. The NICE recommended levels work only for people who get regular sun exposure. They are far too low for most people, especially in the winter.

Nice guidelines are created by people far cleverer than yourself. and by people who have some actual medical credentials and training.

We should be keeping the vulnerable out of circulation. [like some sort of lock down] The list of issues that will kill you if Covid comes your way are well known. Sweden [that country which shows what happens to infection rates if you don't lock down] has shown the way. Their death and serious illness numbers (per million) are no worse than UK but their economy has not been slaughtered on the alter of population control by lockdown.

First point to make is how much of the Swedish economy is reliant on things like tourism which would severely impact somewhere like the UK or spain... ?

and make no mistake while they keep saying they are not in lockdown they are in everything but name with schools closed meetings between people and restricting alcohol sales... oh and there rates of infections are higher than many other parts of Europe including the UK.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Wow that is a reply and a half!
I haven't got time to read it all but I would like to aska couple of questions if I may?
Not trying to be controversial, but I am inquistive.
You mentioned something in there about things being removed from Youtube. What is your view on the fact that Talk Radio was taken off Youtube (for 1 day) because of an interview with a teacher's union leader (apparently) on the subject of the lockdown and vaccines? Talk radio is ofcom audited. Do you think that was healthy or unwise?
Is it still true that the average recovery rate is over 99% or has that changed now?
Is it true that the WHO always stated that lockdowns for viruses don't work and should be avoided because of the collateral damage to other health services and the economy?
Clearly the NHS was underprepared for this outbreak. Is that just because of finances or bad management?
And finally you must surely be proud of what you do and you clearly have a lot of knowledge but you are always very coy about saying what you actually do in the NHS. Surely it could only add to your credibility!