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Old 13-11-2013   #31
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Quote Originally Posted by Ulpian View Post
....... I love the 500L, but I'm not totally in love......
I know what you mean. If there had been a new, updated Multipla, I would have been in there like a shot ....
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Old 13-11-2013   #32
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

It was a brilliant car and I always admire the cleverness of it, fun to drive too, but not many people know that.
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Last edited by Ulpian; 13-11-2013 at 20:54.
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Old 14-11-2013   #33
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

The Suzuki does look smart and won't be too popular, I like having something different Might get non FIAT next time just for a change..doesnt hurt looking 3 years in advance .. but at the moment the 500L is excellent, does have very competitive economy (can't compare a diesel with the TA, compare their petrol with the TA..).. and I know which dealers are good/bad in a 50 mile radius which is important-ish. It also has allot of character, most cars look the same these days and 500L is very smart indeed.

The Mazda CX5 was one of the main competitors to the 500L for me but lost out for being a bit boring and too expensive (considering I wouldn't be getting anything extra that I'd value - paying more for it being an "SUV" and a Mazda - I'm not bothered about the badge or FIAT's image in the UK).

Fiat have a very good car on their hands with the 500L imo. They need to sort some of the rest of the range though, discontinue the Bravo, new Punto needed. It wouldn't hurt if they advertised their products a bit more either! 5 year+ warranty might help sell some cars too.
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Old 14-11-2013   #34
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

On the subject of Diesel vs. Petrol is there any fix on the horizon for DPF Diesels (or anything replacing current tech DPFs?) being able to cope with regular short journeys?

I would go back to Diesel for sure if that was fixed.

NB The diesel car would also need an electric heater like the 500L has (even fitted to the TA which warms up in around 1 mile!), don't want to be driving for 15 miles with the window open in -15C to stop the windscreen misting up waiting for the engine to warm up and the climate control to work properly like I was doing in the Bravo in the recent harsh winters! Heated screen alone might fix but the cabin would still be FREEZING; the 1.6 diesel Bravo took forever to warm up.
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Old 14-11-2013   #35
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

I agree about the heating. I had no idea that the 500L has a supplementary electric heater either, is that right? I have read no mention of it anywhere.

The 1.6 Diesel in my Doblo heats up much more quickly than the old 1.9, which never got warm and necessitated coats on in even a mild British winter. And the integrated DPFs seem to be far less of a problem than the old low-slung exhaust versions. One year on and no problem yet, with quite a bit of city driving... I hope I haven't talked anything up

I also like the Ford eco-boost three cylinder, which seems to combine an optimum performance/economy balance that other small petrols can't manage.

Next year I' going to look at a few new cars, including the C Cross petrol, just to see what the newest cars really are like. But if Suzuki can fit a Fiat Diesel with 118 bhp, giving brilliant driveability, plus a genuine 60++ mpg, what can't Fiat fit the same engine to the 500L? Why the 105 version, which offers worse performance and even worse economy?
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Old 14-11-2013   #36
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

When you configure a 500L on the FIAT website it's listed as part of the spec at the end "PTC Heater" : http://www.epcos.com/web/generator/W...,a=372328.html

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Old 15-11-2013   #37
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Thanks for that.

Nowhere has any tester or pundit mentioned it. Astonishing.
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Old 16-11-2013   #38
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Putting the world to rights :

I think the manufacturers should make things like that a little more visible, specification should be a bit more detailed e.g. it's often hard to know from the spec of a car if it has a 12V socket in the boot but for someone who likes camping it could be really important. FIAT say you get mats with Lounge 500L but not if they are the same as the ones in the accessories brochure. I had a live chat on the website when mine was on order and was told they were the same. Great, as I'd got a set thrown in I thought I'd have a second set to sell on eBay. Nope.. the free set are front only and nowhere near the same quality and without the logo embroidered in, just plain thin black mats to keep as spares. Shouldn't there have been a photo of what you get next to every item in the spec on the configurator?

As for the press.. I feel they really gloss over everything so much so that the reviews are not worth reading (maybe just skim them..) at all in most cases, often the inside and out photos of cars you've never seen are all they're worth looking at for (BTW the interior of the Suzuki looks like it may be nasty, same for the rear space, quite nice looking from the exterior - will have to go and have a look at one )... Every review seems to need to have some long winded spiel about how well a car handles around a race track... but they don't tell you whether or not it can keep you warm or whether or not it has a 12V point in the boot (500L has both ).

I guess the car launches including the websites are rushed and the websites are way too fluffy, not designed for engineers to research their future purchase. E.g. You mentioned the Ecoboost so I went to the Ford website and looked at the B - Max, I clicked on a link described as linking me to economy, and I was presented with another page of dirge telling me how economic it is but with no figures (I did find the numbers eventually...).

I suppose someone thinks that features such as the heater are as ubiquitous as the windscreen washer but the trouble is that they definitely aren't. Those of us who have suffered from a commute starting at 6 AM in winter using a diesel with no PTC heater nor heated windscreen see allot of value in it, a godsend!

It isn't very rare I don't think either, e.g. in retrieving the above description that I linked you to I stumbled upon some forum where the poster stated his Kia Cee'd had a PTC Heater too.
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Old 16-11-2013   #39
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

On topic..

I wonder if the 500L has an aerodynamics problem that hampers its economy? The windscreen is quite upright, the front of the car is upright and tall too. Can that be how it fools the lab tests more than, say, the Suzuki

I doubt that they can win on all fronts.. what they have gone for certainly gives you a very flexible interior with probably the best visibility. Has that hurt the economy compared to sleeker profile looking cars like the Suzuki (quite a rake on that windscreen..)?
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Old 16-11-2013   #40
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Sorry if I've missed it but which Suzuki are talking about here, not that I'm fed up with the L just yet just curious as I didn't consider any Suzukis when we were looking.
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Old 16-11-2013   #41
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

I just got a Twinair Punto and get 48 mpg (500 miles on the odometer).
This corresponds to 54 mpg with a diesel engine, since diesel has a higher energy content per liter.
So, it's not that bad. However, I do wonder how they have achieved the NEDC mileage numbers and apparently car manufacturers can cheat to some extent.
Search for: "Mind the Gap! Why official car fuel economy figures don't match up to reality"

But things you can do is:
Look ahead and try to avoid braking.
When you lift the throttle put your gear in neutral.
Shift early.
Drive below the speed limit on the highway.
Increase tire pressure to 3.5 bar (51 psi)
Buy an ODB reader and try to avoid running boost (there are bluetooth readers which can connect to your smart phone (torque app) or you can buy somthing like ultragauge or scangauge).

I have a second car which is faster but actually do like driving this car a lot and I find trying to reduce my fuel consumption is fun.
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Last edited by TwinairPunto; 16-11-2013 at 16:45.
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Old 16-11-2013   #42
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Oooops - Never ever drive with a car in neutral. Think carefully before playing with the tyre pressures. And if you do drive below the speed limit you will hold people up, and they will hate you

As for aerodynamics. Well, my old Doblo had a CX rating of something like 3.2, which is very good indeed for a van. It had a blunt front and was quite close to the ground - this is important - and a Kamm tail Flat backs are important for air management at speed too. My present Doblo has a huge frontal area, but I have no idea of its CX rating. It's a brick though, so asking for fantastic economy probably isn't fair. It does heat up quickly though, and is warm at night in these falling temperatures. It needs the A/C on al all times though to prevent misting.

The new Suzuki (sorry) also has a CX factor of I think 3.2, which is again very good indeed, and is also quite low for a crossover - important for air control - and has a relatively small frontal area. Plus, it is built with masses of high strength steel and is quite light - this matters too. It also has practically full plastic cladding underneath to smooth airflow - more help. So, it is light and aerodynamic and economical.

As for the interior, well, the pundits say it looks stark, cheap, etc., but they also mention that it is very well assembled. It is, and actually it feels pretty smart behind the wheel, with fantastically clear instruments, a perfect driving position and very well engineered controls. In fact I was very pleasantly surprised and it felt like a quality product.

And testers don't test other things that matter, like satnavs. Heaters are hugely important and so, for me, is connectivity. The Suzy has a Garmin (in the top versions) which includes the usual hands free features and a DAB radio. Useful.

Lots more cars are on the way, but I am not going to drive like a granny all the time to get good economy. I drove like me in the Suzuki (three up) and got 59mpg, and rising. In a brand new car don't forget! I am still in awe

And like the 500L it gets the very highest crash test rating - fantastic. I'm not trying to sell them, but I was hugely impressed, and the thing was great fun to drive, and the 120bhp Fiat Diesel makes it feel like family , quick handling and responsive, like the little Panda TA, and like nearly all Fiats used to be.

PS. Which Suzuki? The new SX4 C Cross.
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Last edited by Ulpian; 16-11-2013 at 19:36.
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Old 16-11-2013   #43
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Quote Originally Posted by TwinairPunto View Post
I just got a Twinair Punto and get 48 mpg (500 miles on the odometer).

When you lift the throttle put your gear in neutral.
Shift early.
Drive below the speed limit on the highway.
Increase tire pressure to 3.5 bar (51 psi)


I have a second car which is faster but actually do like driving this car a lot and I find trying to reduce my fuel consumption is fun.
Hi,
your MPG? figures will improve a lot as the engine free's off

not sure if 3.5 bar is great for the tyres..??



also I was told that de-clutching uses fuel - as the engine needs fuel to keep running , whereas lifting the throttle pedal effectively turns off the fuel supply, and the gearbox keeps the engine spinning with ZERO fuel..,
not sure there..,
Charlie 2013 Punto TA
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Old 16-11-2013   #44
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Yes, stay in gear (where you have control) and then lift off, and the engine uses no fuel. Coast and you use fuel, and have no control in an emergency.

In fact all the info in that post was a bit, erm, wrong.
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Last edited by Ulpian; 16-11-2013 at 20:13.
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Old 17-11-2013   #45
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Re: Twin-Air MPG

Cars on the slower lane usually drive below speed limit - just drive behind them instead of passing them.

You just don't exceed the maximum tire pressure rating (which is usually 3.5 bar). This doesn't harm the tire, it just reduces comfort.

It takes more energy to run the engine at 3000 rpm than at 900 rpm, this is why you end up using less fuel, despite needing a little fuel to idle the engine.
If you lift the throttle you don't use fuel but you engine brake at 3000 rpm, which means you need to step on the throttle earlier and end up using more fuel. This is just a simple fact.

Running the engine at idle neither shuts off the steering wheel nor the brakes. And if you look ahead you wouldn't run into emergencies in the first place.

Search for hypermiling if you want to learn about saving fuel.
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Last edited by TwinairPunto; 17-11-2013 at 02:09.
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