TrevC said:

Well, I'm certainly going to let the local independent garage do the belt in my wife's 500c after reading this lot! Always assuming they give a reasonable quote - I'm thinking £250-£300 for the belts, waterpump and tensioner?

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Just been quoted £241 for genuine belt,tensioner and water pump change from Fiat independent specialist near me, main dealer wanted £551 .

Jock, I'd agree that this would not be a "beginners" job! I've considered doing it because I used to do all my own car fixing in the olden days - head gasket, engine out clutch replacement etc. I've still got a reasonable collection of tools, but as I'm much older now, and even the "simple" 1.2 is still much more complex than a 1970 Vauxhall Viva, I've lost some of my confidence!
Phil, thanks for that feedback on price. We used the local indy for a full service last year and it was about £250, including an MoT, so we'll see what they quote. Just an oil and filter change service needed this year.

Hilux phil said:

Just been quoted £241 for genuine belt,tensioner and water pump change from Fiat independent specialist near me, main dealer wanted £551 .

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I had a similar experience when researching prices before diving into our Panda and my boy's Punto myself. I thought the main dealer price was really over the top so went into our local dealer and inquired at the service desk. A menu pricing list was produced which listed the price for doing the belt - this did not include the water pump. There was a separate price for doing the water pump.

I hazarded the opinion that their quote was so expensive because they were simply combining these two menu prices and I tried to explain that you couldn't simply arrive at a price for incorporating the water pump into the job as the majority of the work was already done when preparing for the belt change (ie. removing engine mount, belt guards, slackening tensioner, etc.) I'm afraid things got a bit fraught - the receptionist seemed to think I was being "clever" so I thought it best to withdraw. prices from independents were very similar to those you were quoted.

I found my local factor wanted around the £80 mark for a quality (Gates) kit which included the pump and eventually bought the same kit from Mr Auto which is today still quoted at a smidgeon under £65. I mean no insult to my local factor in saying this, I find them very good and use them a lot, but it's just to illustrate that on "high volume" parts like these there are often substantial saving to be made by buying on line. By the time you've bought a new cam cover gasket, a tube of liquid gasket and some antifreeze you'll be somewhere around just under the £100. So doing it yourself, if you are able, should save you at least half the cost and it's a job you can confidently expect to complete in the day (but I like to leave the liquid gasket to cure on the water pump over night before refilling the cooling system.)

TrevC said:

Jock, I'd agree that this would not be a "beginners" job! I've considered doing it because I used to do all my own car fixing in the olden days - head gasket, engine out clutch replacement etc. I've still got a reasonable collection of tools, but as I'm much older now, and even the "simple" 1.2 is still much more complex than a 1970 Vauxhall Viva, I've lost some of my confidence!

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Oh Trev, tell me about it! I've done all that too. Probably the most ambitious job I ever tried at home was to remove the 2 litre "O" series engine complete with it's gearbox from my Austin Ambassador many years ago, using a rope block and tackle, just a few weeks before going on a motoring holiday to France. Nearly brought the garage roof down and I had to make a metal frame to take the weight to reinstall it! I've still got the frame now with a half ton chain block and tackle replacing the rope one (still got the rope one too). Then split the engine and gearbox - the gearbox had a complex problem which a "specialist" supposedly fixed for me only to find he had introduced a separate fault by installing the first gear striking ring the wrong way round so first gear could not be selected with the engine running! - on that box the striking ring was, unusually, a handed design. If it was assembled the wrong way round it couldn't pick up on the synchro ring properly so baulked first gear selection - Of course I only found out about this after putting the whole thing back together so it all had to come apart again - a big job on these because it was like a very big Mini power unit with the gearbox in unit with the bottom of the engine - I stripped out the 1st motion and main shafts, turned the striking ring round and reassembled the whole lot. I'd given the box to the "specialist" because I didn't feel confident enough to sort it out myself however in the end I had most of the box apart myself and successfully reassembled it all and it ran for years after without a problem. In fact I got it finished the night before we set off from Edinburgh complete with a much relieved Mrs J, who thought she wasn't going to get her holiday that year - Oh she of little faith! - and 3 very excited young children packed in amongst all the bags, tents, and other camping paraphernalia in the back. Oh such happy carefree (relatively) days!

Now a days I wouldn't even think about taking something like this on, just thinking about it terrorizes me!

Jeez that must have been heavy! In my youth I helped a mate swap out the power unit in his Morris 1100 (another one with a sump full of gears of course) and that had serious mass. We took the old unit to the tip in the back of my Renault 5, with my mate sitting on the boot floor (seats folded) holding it steady. The R5 had quite heavy steering, but with that lot in the back it felt like it was power assisted!
Sorry to have veered off topic with old guy ramblings - at least we didn't have to worry about cambelt changes in most cars then.

TrevC said:

Jeez that must have been heavy!

- at least we didn't have to worry about cambelt changes in most cars then.

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Yup, it sure was! In fact because I took it out with the rope block it had to come out all in one go - not like with a chain block where it will just hang if you let go of the chain. By the time I got it half way out my arm muscles were feeling quite wobbly. I've always been pretty fit too and, at that time weighed about 13.5 stone- so no "shrinking violet". I don't really know how I ever got it high enough to clear the front panel though. The block ratio was about 8:1 I think, so I seemed to be hauling miles of rope with my hands for the engine to only lift a short distance. I was also quite frightened that I was just going to drop the whole lot which would have certainly ruined the gearbox altogether.

Cambelt? In fact the "O" series had a cambelt. A very easy one to do and there was so much room under the bonnet you could almost climb in beside it and have a picnic if you wanted. Can't really think of anything that was difficult to access.

I have to say though that I was working for a BL garage at the time so was no stranger to the cars and had a pretty good idea what I was letting myself in for. Didn't make it any lighter though!

Got the tools! I removed the valve cover. I just removed all the screws holding it and the ignition unit and a couple of cables. (posted images if anyone want to learn )

Should I nowgently turn the camshaft (making sure no valves hit the pistons) until the tool "edge" can fit in the groove of the camshaft?

I cant tell from the images in the link if the "edge" fits in the groove or not... I assume its the case...

https://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/belt-replacement-guide-fiat-500/

Hi josa, Yes you need to get the cam turned till the tool fits in the slot across the back of the cam. Is the belt still fitted just now? If not, traditionally the advice is always to set the pistons all halfway up/down the bores before trying to turn an unconnected camshaft. That way the valves can't possibly touch a piston.

However looking at your picture of the end of the cam I can see the wee slot - not the slot the tool will engage with - is sitting at about 2 o'clock relative to the cylinderhead. If that's not understandable here's a picture of my Panda with the tool fitted in the slot where you can see the "wee" slot I'm talking about:



The end of your cam looks slightly different because you have that large disc but the cam itself is the same. The position of this little slot would seem to indicate that your cam is almost in the correct position (just needs to be turned on by a few degrees to allow the tool to slot in) so I think you will probably be able to just gently turn the cam that slight distance and get away with it.

Of course then you need to be careful lining up the crankshaft just in case a piston touches a valve as you move the crankshaft without the belt connected.

Hope that helps. Maybe I could have described it better? If I can clarify please do just ask
Regards
Jock

Ps when you put the cam cover back on check the little rubber seals are still there for the oil drillings to the cam. I don't think they could drop out, mine didn't, but maybe best to check.

josa100 said:

Got the tools! I removed the valve cover. I just removed all the screws holding it and the ignition unit and a couple of cables. (posted images if anyone want to learn )

Should I nowgently turn the camshaft (making sure no valves hit the pistons) until the tool "edge" can fit in the groove of the camshaft?

I cant tell from the images in the link if the "edge" fits in the groove or not... I assume its the case...

https://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/belt-replacement-guide-fiat-500/

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I can see from pictures you need to turn cam pulley about 6 teeth clockwise , obviously after removing cam belt, to fit special tool.
Yes the notch in camshaft should be roughly vertical then the edge of tool fits in slot cut across end of camshaft

You really need to remove belt first , set the special tool on the crankshaft , which as jock points out sets the pistons halfway in bores out of the way of the valves. Then you can rotate cam shaft.

jackwhoo said:

You really need to remove belt first , set the special tool on the crankshaft , which as jock points out sets the pistons halfway in bores out of the way of the valves. Then you can rotate cam shaft.

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Ok Ill lock the crankshaft first with the tool. Then the camshaft. Then the belt. Then the tensioner.

Now the belt is intalled. It seems it worked. I turned the engine tww full rotations. Felt nothing special.

The marks on the belt doesnt line with marks on the sprockets (even though i placed the line at the C on the camshaft it doesnt line with the marks on the crankshaft). However it doesnt matter. I adjusted the tension roller to max rotated the engine two rotations. Then I lowered the tension so the indicator aligned. Then I tightned the nut with 20nm.

Looks like the job's a "good un". I'll keep my fingers crossed all goes well when you turn that key - good luck
Jock

josa100 said:

Now the belt is intalled. It seems it worked. I turned the engine tww full rotations. Felt nothing special.

The marks on the belt doesnt line with marks on the sprockets (even though i placed the line at the C on the camshaft it doesnt line with the marks on the crankshaft). However it doesnt matter. I adjusted the tension roller to max rotated the engine two rotations. Then I lowered the tension so the indicator aligned. Then I tightned the nut with 20nm.

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Should be 25nm.

But everything else sounds good.

The c on the cam shaft pulley is not a timing mark and means nothing.

Wherever you set lines on belt to start with as soon as you rotate crank those lines won't match their starting points again for about 100 revolutions.

Well done.

If you thinking about what happened on your first attempt, turn crank till it is in the position in your very first photos and take picture of cam pulley and post it on here.
If you now not bothered that's fine.

Turned on the car and everything seems fine. Thanks for the support!

I must have had brain meltdown when I did the belt...

The cam seems to be solid so the sprocket cannot turn without the cam turning. When turning the cam by hand the sprocket rotates with the cam.

The C by the way seems o line up with the cutout in the cams other end. Could be coincidense...

Anyway I would recommend getting the tools.

josa100 said:

Turned on the car and everything seems fine. Thanks for the support!

I must have had brain meltdown when I did the belt...

The cam seems to be solid so the sprocket cannot turn without the cam turning. When turning the cam by hand the sprocket rotates with the cam.

The C by the way seems o line up with the cutout in the cams other end. Could be coincidense...

Anyway I would recommend getting the tools.

Click to expand...

It is coincidence.
Thanks so much for letting us know you/ we won and you got it all done.

I think your brain melt down was trying to get old lines on old belt to match pulleys it's a near impossible task and would require turning crank hundreds of times and totally unnecessary.
I tried to do the maths to work out how many times a 23 tooth cog has to turn a 129 tooth cog before teeth aligned at start align again , I gave up after an hour with a headache.

Thanks for letting us know it all seems OK. I'm very relieved for you. Strange how sometimes things just seem to go hopelessly pear shaped and you just can't see the wood for the trees.
Well done and all best wishes
Jock