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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by typecastboy View Post
Is it possible that there is something that MES is not detecting?
Possibly a wiring fault; is MES able to connect to all the usual modules correctly?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by typecastboy View Post
Did a full diagnostic with MES on every system. There were a few errors which cleared and didnít co me back. But . . . I have the engine light flashing when the engine is running. No messages on the dash and nothing g in MES? Iím confused. Anyone got any ideas why that could be?Attachment 195272
Flashing EML is often a warning the cat's fubar.
Were any of these errors related to a misfire?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
Flashing EML is often a warning the cat's fubar.
Were any of these errors related to a misfire?


No, they were all voltage related to a duff battery. Tested both lambda sensors which were ok. Wouldnít at least the post cat throw up an error?

Could pick up a cat for next to nothing if it is that but wondering if itís worth the hassle. Although it wasnít a write off they clearly offloaded it for salvage for a reason I guess.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

If it wouldn't pass an MOT due to the flashing dash icon, think you now have your answer. Nothing lasts forever.
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

How much have you run it since the new battery? Had a Panda which had been left for a few months with a totally flat battery.
Put new one on and all fault lights disappeared, but the EML came back on randomly for about a week. Then it went off and stayed off.
I just figured it was sulking...
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by Al D View Post
If it wouldn't pass an MOT due to the flashing dash icon, think you now have your answer. Nothing lasts forever.


Thatís my job to start tomorrow. Seems such a shame though.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

I've only ever had a post cat sensor throw a EML for heater circuit short or circuit failure, not for performance.

What tends to happen is the post cats sensor readings tend to fluctuate depending on heat and drive cycle, which makes it difficult to reliably judge it's performance and set a finite level at which to flag a fault .

So what tends to happen is the ECU compares both sensors readings and if they are alike it knows the cats performance isn't right and starts warning the driver of an emissions fault rather than an engine fault.
Some vehicles have a dedicated emissions light, others don't and tend to flash rather than light the EML up solidly.

Try warming up the engine/cat fully and logging both O2 sensors.

The Pre should switch voltage about once every second, it's peaks and troughs should be around 0.9v and 0.1v and if fueling correctly it's average/mid point should be 0.45v.

Now test the Post sensor.
It's difficult to give an exact reading, as mentioned there are various things that influence the cat performance, heat and age being two, but it should smooth out the switching of the pre cats readings and return at slightly wobbly reading around 0.5v to 0.7v mark.

If it's not doing this, it's more than likely the cat isn't doing what it should.

The biggest issue with cats tends to be misfires that send upburnt fuel into the exhaust, this causes excess heat and starts melting the internals so it can no longer store the oxygen it needs to work correctly.
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Whilst i can't help is the flashing absolutely regular or erratic? If regular it must be saying something?
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by John202020 View Post
Whilst i can't help is the flashing absolutely regular or erratic? If regular it must be saying something?


Itís regular
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
I've only ever had a post cat sensor throw a EML for heater circuit short or circuit failure, not for performance.

What tends to happen is the post cats sensor readings tend to fluctuate depending on heat and drive cycle, which makes it difficult to reliably judge it's performance and set a finite level at which to flag a fault .

So what tends to happen is the ECU compares both sensors readings and if they are alike it knows the cats performance isn't right and starts warning the driver of an emissions fault rather than an engine fault.
Some vehicles have a dedicated emissions light, others don't and tend to flash rather than light the EML up solidly.

Try warming up the engine/cat fully and logging both O2 sensors.

The Pre should switch voltage about once every second, it's peaks and troughs should be around 0.9v and 0.1v and if fueling correctly it's average/mid point should be 0.45v.

Now test the Post sensor.
It's difficult to give an exact reading, as mentioned there are various things that influence the cat performance, heat and age being two, but it should smooth out the switching of the pre cats readings and return at slightly wobbly reading around 0.5v to 0.7v mark.

If it's not doing this, it's more than likely the cat isn't doing what it should.

The biggest issue with cats tends to be misfires that send upburnt fuel into the exhaust, this causes excess heat and starts melting the internals so it can no longer store the oxygen it needs to work correctly.


Thank you for that explanation, it makes perfect sense. It sounds like it is the cat then. I guess for a 9 year old car with 136,000 miles itís to be expected. I can pick up a cat on eBay for about £70 but do t think I can be bothered to change it in case that then leads on to something else and a particularly awkward job I imagine. I think my original reason for breaking it might be the way forward but who,r itís got a couple of months MoT on it, I might drive it around for a bit.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

It's worth checking both O2 readings, I'm curious.

Another thing, has it been ran under load since you cleared the codes, or just idled?
It may have a misfire that's not apparent until driven.
I wonder if the cam and crank sensors are out of alignment and it's detecting a misfire?

If it is the cat, I don't think swapping it out is a difficult job, I don't think there's much in it's way, though I would want to be certain before forking out and tackling it.
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Last edited by Goudrons; 1 Week Ago at 13:00.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
It's worth checking both O2 readings, I'm curious.

Another thing, has it been ran under load since you cleared the codes, or just idled?
It may have a misfire that's not apparent until driven.
I wonder if the cam and crank sensors are out of alignment and it's detecting a misfire?

If it is the cat, I don't think swapping it out is a difficult job, I don't think there's much in it's way, though I would want to be certain before forking out and tackling it.


Only ticking over. Iím going to take it for a spin over the weekend. Noticed today that there is a dent in the back of the roof and the hatch has a dent too. Thatís made my mind up that I will break it up for spares.
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Old 2 Days Ago   #28
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

The warning light could be the alternator not charging properly. It will be interesting to see what you find when it's stripped out.
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Old 1 Day Ago   #29
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Re: DECISIONS DECISIONS break or keep?

Just took the old girl out for a spin. When you unlock the door thereís a very loud electric motor that runs for about 6 seconds or so. Sounds like the fuel pump priming but really loud.

The old girl runs really well. Shame about that flashing engine light.Click image for larger version

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Old 1 Day Ago   #30
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Quote Originally Posted by typecastboy View Post
Just took the old girl out for a spin. When you unlock the door thereís a very loud electric motor that runs for about 6 seconds or so. Sounds like the fuel pump priming but really loud.

The old girl runs really well. Shame about that flashing engine light.Attachment 195405
That would be the gearbox primer pump.
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